WHAT am I doing WRONG!

[Cortney]

This is getting beyond frustrating! I made a second batch of soap last night and it did the SAME thing AGAIN! What is that and why would it do that? I know my measurements were perfect this time, the lye, water, goats milk and oils were perfect. I did that right. I waited for the oil and lye water to get within 5 degrees of one another. I MIXED to a full trace. Was it the goats milk? Was it the FO or calendula petals I used? On yesterdays batch I used full strength frozen canned GM. Last night I used half the water with the lye and half canned GM in the oils, a technique I saw online when using canned goats milk. Yesterday's batch I froze, last nights I didn't insulate and left it on the counter. This one is not lye heavy, it doesn't zap at all but it still has that cavern of oil just below the surface!!!! Irritating! Please anyone know??

 

[heartsong]

x

sorry for your troubles! i know your frustration! :roll:

my first questions:

do you use a lot of olive oil? what percentage?

do you use a water discount? what percentage?

did the soap gel? (heat up?)

right now, i would suggest not fooling with it. relax and wait a couple days and see if the oils reabsorb. leave it uncovered.

 

[Cortney]

My recipe was-
Coconut oil- 30%
Olive oil- 50%
Palm oil- 20%

Superfat- 6
Lye concentraion- 33

water/GM- 263g
lye- 129g

I used
1oz of Sleeping Angels FO
1 cup of ground calendula petals

The soap gelled but it didn't get extremely hot like it would have if I had insulated it. The top wasn't smooshy like yesterdays either. Thank you. I'll let it sit

 

[Guest]

I am sorry you are having trouble . I would do what heartsong said and see if the oil reabsorbs . Adding milk to soap can be tricky , especially when you are just starting out . I suggest you try a small batch with no milk , just so you can see how it works . The only time I have ever had an oil slick was with milk soap that overheated , I changed to powdered milk , much easier imho.

Kitn

 

[Cortney]

This isn't an oil slick on the top of the soap, it's a cavern of oil IN the soap. This is the second time, once the batch was frozen and this sat on the counter. I've made one successful batch without milk, my 4 other unsuccessful batches had milk.....I guess milk and I don't mix.

 

[heartsong]

I am sorry you are having trouble . I would do what heartsong said and see if the oil reabsorbs . Adding milk to soap can be tricky , especially when you are just starting out . I suggest you try a small batch with no milk , just so you can see how it works . The only time I have ever had an oil slick was with milk soap that overheated , I changed to powdered milk , much easier imho.

Kitn

i agree with kitn, get to know how your basic recipe will perform before using milk, especially if you don't know how your f/o's will react. one small step at a time.

also, are you using virgin olive oil? i have less troubles, and a whiter soap if using just the plain "golden" olive oil, like walmart's "great value" oil, or www.soaperschoice.com "A" grade olive oil.

 

[Cortney]

Ok, thank you. I'll try this recipe without milk.

I'm using the Great Value Olive Oil from Sams

 

[Paula58]

Do you use distilled water?

If you have your heart set on a milk soap why not try an unscented Castille variation of 90% & 10% castor? The behavior of these oils is well known and because of the slower trace time you will have time to observe the saponification process is more detail. You can work with these both at room temperature so the oils getting too hot should not be a problem.

I agree with your dissolving the lye in the water. Let it cool to appx 85F before adding to the oils. But instead of adding the milk to the oils before you add the lye, add the concentrated milk when the oils and lye have just started to emulsify. Just give it a few quick bursts with the stick blender to make sure the milk has been dispersed thoroughly then continue mixing by hand. This is because milk speeds the trace. You can also add some baby food oatmeal at trace for a very gentle exfoliant. (I use 1T ppo)


Once you have reached trace (it might get gloppy). Pour the batch into a prechilled mold and cover thinly and place in the freezer for a couple of hours then transfer to the fridge for overnight.

The soap may take a couple of days to get firm enough to remove from the mold (you used full liquid) so don't worry that is normal for high olive oil soaps. Next time you can use a stronger lye concentration.

And Castille ends up being a very hard soap that only gets better with age.

 

[Pat@GranNannysGoatMilkSoa]

making goat milk soap

I just joined this forum so I hope I can help with goat milk soaps. I raise goats and specialize in making goat milk soaps and lotions.

After reading your posts, I'm not sure I know what's happening to your soaps. But I can tell you what I do. Generally speaking, of course.

I don't use water at all. Just goat milk. So when a formula/recipe calls for water, I substitute that weight for milk because their molecular weight is close enough to be counted as the same. (to me, anyway)

I use my own goat's milk and haven't used canned milk so I don't know the differences.

After milking my goats, I freeze the milk. If you use frozen milk, the heat generated with the lye/liquid mixture won't scald the milk quite so much. But BEFORE I mix the lye/milk I have already weighted, heated and cooled all the oils. I add either the EO or FO to the oil mixture when the oils are below 100 degrees. (watch out for that flash point!)

Now I mix the lye/milk because this is the critical mix. I sprinkle the lye on top of the frozen milk chunk. I NEVER leave this process. Stirring or poking continuously, the lye heats when mixed with liquid, I gently breakup the milk icy until the lye and milk are thoroughly mixed. If you leave it, the milk/lye will settle to the bottom and you'll get nasty crystals. ugh

Then I put both pans in a cold water bath and wait until they are the same temperature. When they're within 5 to 10 degrees from each other, I pour the lye/milk mixture into the oil mixture and stur like crazy for two or three minutes. (Mixing the lye/milk mixture takes place outside due to ventalition considerations.)

Then I carry my soap mixture back inside where I get out my immersion mixer. Here is where the time varies. Sometime it takes 10 minutes before the saponification process begins. Other times it takes 3 or 4 minutes. (Depends on the oils/temperature I'm working with at the time.)

Knowing the SAP values of the oils is also critical. Most online soap calculators already have these built in. But you should make sure your formula percentages are based on SAP values.

I hope this helps. Or at least gives you some clues where you can look for more information. I love goat milk soaps and am glad you're working with goat milk. It makes such a differences in your skin. You'll love it and YES it is worth this effort.

Best of luck, Pat Allen

 

[heartsong]

x

thanks, pat!

that was very nice of you to go into such a full explanation and details!

a lot of us are still poking around in the dark trying to find what works best.

and BTW, welcome to the forum!

looking forward to your future participation in our chats here!

 

[IrishLass]

This isn't an oil slick on the top of the soap, it's a cavern of oil IN the soap............The top wasn't smooshy like yesterdays either.

HMMM... Your observance of 1) no oil being on the top, 2) the soap not being smooshy, and 3) the appearance of what looks to be oil IN the soap has me wondering if the 'cavern of oil' you are observing might not really be oil at all, but the results of a partial gel?

Partial gel looks a lot like what you described. The soap is firm, but there is a dark area in the middle that seems to extend through the soap with lighter colored soap all the way around. Does that describe your soap?

Have you cut into it yet?

If you cut into it and oil leaks everywhere, then my theory is shot, but if you cut into it and the soap does not leak any oil, then my educated guess is that your soap went through partial gel and is perfectly fine. Partial gel might look weird, but it's still good soap.

Let us know what happens when you cut into it!



IrishLass

 

[sandyvern]

This is getting beyond frustrating! I made a second batch of soap last night and it did the SAME thing AGAIN! What is that and why would it do that? I know my measurements were perfect this time, the lye, water, goats milk and oils were perfect. I did that right. I waited for the oil and lye water to get within 5 degrees of one another. I MIXED to a full trace. Was it the goats milk? Was it the FO or calendula petals I used? On yesterdays batch I used full strength frozen canned GM. Last night I used half the water with the lye and half canned GM in the oils, a technique I saw online when using canned goats milk. Yesterday's batch I froze, last nights I didn't insulate and left it on the counter. This one is not lye heavy, it doesn't zap at all but it still has that cavern of oil just below the surface!!!! Irritating! Please anyone know??

I haven't heard (or more like read) what exactly is happening to your soap....but I think I may have just had a similiar problem. I have just recently (in the last week) made 2 batches of soap that all seemed well...until I cut into them and there was a pocket of oil that seems to have gone through the soap (I used a 4 lb log mold and the pocket was probably about a quarter of the way down from the top). Both of the batches had about 50% olive oil...and I used a combination of goats milk (frozen) and frozen heavy cream. The first batch was an oatmeal GM bar (no scent added) and the second one was an Almond Joy type bar with chocolate and almond FOs added. The Almond Joy bar was probably the one that was the worst...as I started to slice it, it just spilled oil out of it....this one I just cut up yesterday and have just let it start drying out and see what happens with it. The Oatmeal & GM bar actually wasn't too bad...and seems to have cured and become better. I actually have already used the end pieces of it and I love it. So not sure what has happened and if the second batch will turn out ok....guess I will have to wait and see.

And these are not my first milk soaps...most of my soap that I make are milk soaps...but haven't had this problem before....so not sure what to make of it.

Sandy

 

[Cortney]

This isn't an oil slick on the top of the soap, it's a cavern of oil IN the soap............The top wasn't smooshy like yesterdays either.

HMMM... Your observance of 1) no oil being on the top, 2) the soap not being smooshy, and 3) the appearance of what looks to be oil IN the soap has me wondering if the 'cavern of oil' you are observing might not really be oil at all, but the results of a partial gel?

Partial gel looks a lot like what you described. The soap is firm, but there is a dark area in the middle that seems to extend through the soap with lighter colored soap all the way around. Does that describe your soap?

Have you cut into it yet?

If you cut into it and oil leaks everywhere, then my theory is shot, but if you cut into it and the soap does not leak any oil, then my educated guess is that your soap went through partial gel and is perfectly fine. Partial gel might look weird, but it's still good soap.

Let us know what happens when you cut into it!



IrishLass

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12559&highlight=

Here is a link with a picture of first batch I made that had the cavern problem. The second, the one in this post, didn't zap but also had the same cavern of oil. I touched it and smelled it, I think it's the FO inside. I wish I new what happened or what made it split like this. I'm going to try one with GM and no EO/FO and one with FO/EO and without GM too see which is causing it. I've made 1 successful loaf without either ingredient.

 

[IrishLass]

Thanks for the link to the pic! Looks like my theory was shot.

That's definitely a weird occurrance. I just took a look over on Kathy Millers soap site on her troubleshooting page to gain some insight as to what might possible be the cause of your dilemma, and according to Kathy, pockets of oil in soap are most often caused by either the fragrance oil, or adding superfatting oils/fats at trace. The remedy listed on her page is this:

"If tiny, may be absorbed during cure. If large, remelt the batch... being sure to put all liquids back in the pot and not tossing anything out. You might consider putting all of your special superfatting oils in the soap at the beginning and not attempt to stir them in at trace."

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[Cortney]

I looked over the troubleshooting and I think it was a combination of the FO and overheating. I left it on the counter uncovered but I think it may have overheated still, next time I will refrigerate it for a while....not completely freeze it like the first batch. I remelted using the oven bag tutorial and I think it will be ok. There are no oil slicks and the edges have already firmed. I hope it worked!


Thank you for all your help!!

 

[kittywings]

My very first milk soap (very small batch and it just had a couple T. of half and half in it) had basically the same issue. I ended up using some remnants from the ends after cutting it to squish inside the middle... all of the oil reabsorbed and now they're fine. I don't know why it happened that time, but I haven't had an issue since (though, I feel like I just jinxed myself)!