What am I doing wrong? :O(

[Ceri]

Hi ladies and gents,

Please, please can someone help me?
I am trying to perfect some recipes but I keep ending up with soap that is oily, crumbly and powdery once demolded.
I am making very small test batches (approx 100g) of base formulas before I go on to experiment with larger 1kg silicone molds. out of 10 or so formulas, only 2 or 3 seem to be working and turning "soapy" within 24 hours.

I'd like to use a mix of Coconut, Olive and sunflower, sweet almond or rapeseed oil and a smidge of beeswax. I want to avoid Palm Oil and animal fats.

Could it be my batches are losing heat too quickly as they are so small and saponification is not happening properly? I have been running everything through MMS lye calc beforehand and making sure I have solid and liquid oils in the mix.

I'm starting to get very demoralized with it all and just want to crack a good basic recipe so I can get on with proper soaping. Any advice you lovelies could offer is hugely appreciated.

 

[dagmar88]

Could you post your exact recipe, including water and lye amounts?
I make 500 gram batches as test batches and that is my minimum.
You don't need heat for saponifiacation (for instance, I soap at room temp and tend to prevent gelling at all) but as your batches are so small there's very little room for error in your measurements...

 

[Ceri]

Hi Dagmar88,

Thank you for your reply,

Below are my 100g scaled failures

#1
30% Coconut oil
50% Olive Pomace or Rapeseed Oil
15% Cocoa butter
30 ml distilled water
14g Sod Hydrox

de molded and cut 24 hrs after pouring.
Seemed to get better texture (ie less crumbly) with rapeseed oil.

#2
30% Coconut
30% Olive Pomace
30% Sunflower
10 % Beeswax (since changed to 9% Sweet Almond & 1% beeswax)
30ml distilled water
13 / 14 g sod hydrox

de-molded and cut 24 hrs after pouring
Really hard texture similar to cocoa butter when cut, way too flinty with 10% beeswax.

#3
30% coconut
38% olive pomace
30% sunflower / sweet almond oil
1.5% beeswax
30 ml distilled water
14g sod hydrox

really powdery on de-molding

#4
44% Coconut
28% Olive pomace
28% Sweet Almond
15g sod hydrox
30 ml distilled water

Took over 45 mins to begin to trace, powdery on de-molding


#5
35% coconut
35% olive pomace
30% sunflower
30 ml distilled water
14g sod hydrox

Took over 45 mikns to trace, powdery on de-molding

The following seem to have worked and are a nice creamy looking texture when cut:

#6 (3 days ago)
56.23% Coconut
25.03% Olive pomace
18.74% sweet Almond
30 ml distilled water
15.5g sod hydrox

really white firm bar, smooth texture when cut 24 hrs after pouring :O)
Just conscious the % of coconut is quite high and could end up being drying.

#7 (i made this 1KG)
45% Sunflower Oil
28% Sweet Almond Oil
20% Olive
10% Beeswax
300 ml distilled water
125g Sod hydrox

This took 3-4 days before it was firm enough to de-mold, it was a little soft and sticky when cut, but now 4 weeks later, it looks smooth and creamy, nice and firm :O)

#8 (i made this 560 g) 3 days ago
27% Coconut oil
36% Olive Pomace
36% Sunflower oil
200 ml distilled water
80g sod hydrox

this took over 1hr 20 mins to get to light trace, I'm not convinced it actually did, but I poured it anyway as my arm was about to drop off. The next day it had an oily surface that looked a little grainy, thi has now been absorbed but is still too soft to de-mold, I will try tomorrow.

Thank you so much for your help in advance,

 

[dagmar88]

Thanks for posting those, that really helps a lot!

Okay; first of all I noticed you use (high amounts of) beeswax in several of your recipes.
I'm not sure what your motivation is to add beeswax?
It cuts lather and a well balanced recipe should give soap hard enough to be able to stop using the beeswax all together :wink:

Also, your percentages aren't accurate I'm no math wonder either; but everything should add up to 100%! Accuracy is very important and I think that, in combination with the size of your batches, is where you went wrong.
Please start measuring your liquid (in these recipes water) in grams like you do with all your other ingredients. Soon you'll get the hang of it and you'll be making soap with all kinds of dairy and mashed vegetables

Have you zap tested your soaps? I'm afraid some of them are lye heavy; especially since you describe them as powdery...
To zap test: wet your finger, rub it on your soap and lick. Soap that's not lye heavy will just taste like soap and soap that is will give you a tiny 'shock'.

Here are some sites/links that I think are really useful for you to read:
http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm
http://www.millersoap.com/
http://www.smftutorials.com/

And some recipes to get you started:

For a 500 gram batch, a variation on the classic bastille soap.
It will take fairly long to trace and to fully cure because of the high olive oil content; but after that it's just really good and gentle soap.

125 grams of coconut oil (25%)
350 grams of olive oil (70%)
25 grams of castor oil (5%)

69 grams of lye and 165 grams of water.

This recipe uses a little less water (water discount) to speed up the hardening a bit. It has a 6% superfat.

And another one, for nice white and hard soap:

375 grams of coconut oil (75%)
100 grams of olive oil (20%)
25 grams of castor oil (5%)

72 grams of lye and 190 grams of water.

This recipe has a 15% superfat to keep it in balance because of the high amount of coconut. You can use as much coconut as you like, as long as you match the amount of superfat to it. For example you could make a 100% coconut batch with 20% superfat.
You can sub the olive oil in this recipe with any oil of your choice; sunflower, rapeseed, almond or whatever else you have on hand.

It's so hard for me to imagine my soap without palm oil; I'm in love with that stuff But these recipes are really good basic ones and you can start tweaking them bit by bit untill they fit your needs.

Just make sure you run every recipe you find online, in books or you come up with yourself through a reliable lye calculator like www.soapcalc.net

I hope this helps and if you have any questions, just let us know!
Dagmar

 

[honor435]

I couldnt imag my soap without po either, but you could use crisco? have you tried soapcalc? it is great, you can figure your soaps qualities and exact amts for oils, lye superfat. I would def use castor, it makes great lather. why are you opposed to palm? it isnt a animal fat.

 

[dagmar88]

Hey honor, Crisco contains palm too; and since I'm not in the USA I have no idea if there is 100% hydrogenated soybean oil available.

Some people are opposed to palm because of deforestation.
There are many pro's and cons though for both palm and other oils.

 

[IrishLass]

Hi Ceri. Like Dagmar said, the very small size of your sample batches are probably why you are having the problems you are experiencing.

I would do your sample batches starting with at least 500 grams, like Dagmar does (or for me, 1 pound, which is roughly 500 grams). The reason why is because the smaller you go below 500 grams or 1 lb., the less and less wiggle room you have for even the very slightest of weight discrepancies, unless you have an awesome scale that can weigh to very small amounts (like .01 grams or .0005 oz) accurately. At 100 grams, even the slightest twitch can cause a lye-heavy disaster, and from your description (crumby/powdery), your soaps sound like they are lye heavy. They can be saved, though, via rebatching with more oil until they don't zap anymore, but for future sample batches, I would not go less than 500 grams (or 1 lb). That might seem a lot to someone just startiing out, but you will have more consistent, better behaved, accurate results.

IrishLass

 

[carebear]

Hey honor, Crisco contains palm too; and since I'm not in the USA I have no idea if there is 100% hydrogenated soybean oil available.

Some people are opposed to palm because of deforestation.
There are many pro's and cons though for both palm and other oils.

Crisco in the US no longer contains palm, at least not in this area - there are regional variations, tho.

My minimum batch size is 2# of oils. Too much variability below that.

And yea, drop the beeswax for now.

Your percentages of the OILS should total 100%. The lye and liquid are calculated separately.

 

[ChrissyB]

I agree with the consensus that your batches are too small, no room for any error, even a 1 gm mismeasurement.
You don't need the beeswax, some soapers use it, but get the hang of soaping first and then think about the beeswax. I've used it a couple of times and decided I don't need it, so I don't bother.

 

[Ceri]

Oh you guys, Thank you soo much
Sorry i did not post back sooner, it was night time here in blighty and a girl does need her sleep.

Dagma88, what can I say... I will check out those links and give your recipes a try. I do run all found recipes through MMS online lye calc as this seemed to be the most popular one to use, and I do use a digital scale but I guess as you say my batches are way too small, I was trying to be economical until I cracked a good formula My reasons for using beeswax are that my dad is a beekeeper so I'd really like to incorporate beeswax and honey in my soaps but am becoming increasingly aware of the problems they can cause in a batch. I'd rather not use palm oil as I am trying to make a really eco friendly soap so that rules it out for me. We don't have crisco over here (at least I have not seen it) but I can get hold of Vegetable Shortening which I believe is soybean oil, would this be any good?

Honor435, Irishlass, carebare and ChrissyB thank you all for your valuable words of wisdom, you are stars!! I will definitely be following your hints and tips. I stocked up on coconut and olive oil yesterday so I'm itching to get going with more experiments, I think I have some castor too, so I'm good to go. I'll let you know how it goes ...once again thank you all

Edited to add- got my 2 new batches curing now :O)
The high coconut oil one took an age to get to trace, approx 2 hrs, I think it got there in the end, but as usual i got impatient and poured it, fingers crossed it'll set, looks good and creamy...hmmmm
The Bastile one traced in a matter of 5-10 mins (definite trace this time) and looked quite gel like when i poured it, again fingers crossed it goes well, I'll update again tomorrow when de-molded, again thank you guys xxx

 

[bodybym]

Yes, you can use vegetable shortening (Crisco is just a name brand for it) but unless it tells you what is in it you may have to call the company and find out what they use so that you can put it into a lye calculator properly.

I use honey and beeswax in 1 of my soaps and you have to use very little or it will end up ruining your whole batch (learned that the hard way a couple of times). You might want to hold off on using them until you get a batch that has worked for you several times and then add in 1 or the other until you know how it will act. Just make sure to use very small %'s of them when you start.

 

[krissy]

Edited to add- got my 2 new batches curing now :O)
The high coconut oil one took an age to get to trace, approx 2 hrs, I think it got there in the end, but as usual i got impatient and poured it, fingers crossed it'll set, looks good and creamy...hmmmm
The Bastile one traced in a matter of 5-10 mins (definite trace this time) and looked quite gel like when i poured it, again fingers crossed it goes well, I'll update again tomorrow when de-molded, again thank you guys xxx

are you hand stirring? if so you can cut your stir time tremendously by getting a stick blender.

 

[honor435]

I was going to say the same thing! get a stick blender, you wont regret it, i got mine from used store for 5$ and iv made over 130 batches.
If you want to use Dads beeswax, make lotion bars,
3oz beeswax, 3 oz cocoa or shea, 3 oz almond oil, melt togther, add fo, put in cute plastic molds, 2-5 hrs later pop out!

 

[Ceri]

H Krissy & Honour435,

Yes i am hand blending, I feel like i have biceps like popeye sometimes when trace takes an age. I do have a stick blender so I'll have to give this a try, thanks for the tip
I put beeswax in all the hand creams and lotion bars i make already and it gives such a lovely warm floral smell to them, I am trying to find a way to cram a bit in everything :wink:

soap batch update,
jut peeked under the towels and my coconut rich base has an oil layer on top :O( I should have known not to pour it...would re-melting it an blitzing with a hand blender help?

My bastile however is setting up nicely, little bit of ash on top but not loads, still a little soft at the edges, so i'll leave it a bit longer in the mold.

Thank you guys once again :O)