Two Batches and Two Poor, Though Different, Results

[QuanahRose]

Two poor results. Same recipe (Hemp Body Bar) with 1% difference in discount and different procedure for adding clay colorant. Both times, ran it through SoapCalc. Below are the two recipes and the soaping process I followed for each. After that are my questions.

First recipe -- Dark Soap
Palm Oil 453g
Coconut Oil, 76 382g
Hemp Oil 226g
Olive Oil 212g
Water 485g
Lye 184g
5% discount

At light trace, added 2 grams tea tree oil.
Wet clay with water before adding. Total three tablespoons rose kaolin clay.
Used stick blender in 15 second increments.
Poured at medium trace. Wooden mold with top, blankets. Opened up twelve hours later. Powdered on top. When cut, darker center, lighter edges. (Photo)



Shavings of soap from the edges tests alkaline -- magenta reaction to drop of phenolphthalein.

Second recipe -- Mottled Soap
Same oils and amounts as above, slightly different water and lye based, I believe, on an additional 1% discount.
Water 484g
Lye 182g

Soaped @ 102 degrees
At light trace, added 2 grams tea tree oil. Mixed, then added clay. Made the mistake of using oil to moisten the clay. (Duh) Would not incorporate into mixture, even with stick blender. Tried to darken it to minimize the spotted look by adding additional clay moistened with water. Kind of swirled it in the pan and then poured at thick trace.

In the mold -- Placed freezer paper on top of poured soap and put on wooden mold lid. No towels or blankets.
At one and two hour checks, opaque and warm.
At eight hours, opaque warm and moisture droplets on top. (Photo) I tested one of the droplets and got a magenta response.



Based on belief droplets were result of overheating, took off paper and lid. An hour later, all the droplets were gone (reabsorbed?). Left top off.
In morning, opaque, cool, some powder formation on top.
Removed from mold and cut small piece off end -- it crumbled. (photo)



Questions about dark soap:
Is the color difference in the dark soap due to the gelling process failing to reach the edges?
Will the dark soap even out its color over time?
Will it be usable after more curing?

Questions about mottled soap:
Were the droplets a sign of overheating?
Why the crumbling? Will that improve with time?

What are the consequences of pouring at various - thin, medium, heavy - trace?

This has been a discouraging soaping season for me. Hope to chalk it up to learning but would like to get a couple good loaves of soap for gifting before it is too late for this year.

I am encouraged by the posts of the many forum members who are willing to share their difficulties. Thanks to all of you.

 

[Fragola]

Is the color difference in the dark soap due to the gelling process failing to reach the edges?
Will the dark soap even out its color over time?
Will it be usable after more curing?

Yes, looks like partial gel.
No, it won't even out.
I haven't checked your recipe, but:

For a reliable pH test, you need to have an indicator which you compare to a scale. If you are quite experienced with using phenolphtalein, maybe you can eyball the pH, but phenolphtalein wouldn't be my indicator of choice for discerning between alkaline soap and too alkaline soap.

Isn't your soap too young to test ? Better to wait 1 week or so.

Were the droplets a sign of overheating?
Why the crumbling? Will that improve with time?

What are the consequences of pouring at various - thin, medium, heavy - trace?

I've had droplets with no overheating.

The crumbling can be simply because it's too hard to cut for the tool you are using.

How old is your soap, actually ?

3 tbs clay is a LOT, that can cause crumbling and kill the lather. But often, I like to use a LOT of clay myself. Preferably wire-cut the soap, and do it early enough and it won't crumble much.

No, crumbling won't get better over time. But from the picture, if you cut it carefully, you may be able to minimize it. Try cutting slightly thicker bars, maybe they'll hold better together. The bar that you show in the picture looks more broken than crumbled. My hands aren't that steady with the crinkle cutter either, so I've seen few of those.

From what I hear, a lye heavy soap can crumble, but I don't think it's your case. Air bubbles don't show very well in pictures, but if you have a lot, it will be difficult to cut without crumbling.

Light trace reduces the risk of air bubbles, but increases the risk of having no trace at all. Heavy trace can mean that your soap won't properly take the shape of the mold.

 

[judymoody]

First soap, partial gel. This is an aesthetic issue only. I don't mind it personally. If it bothers you, trim the lighter colored edges.

2 grams of tea tree oil is too low to get any scent with that quantity of soap. A general rule of thumb is 3-6% fragrance WRT soaping oils depending on what you are using and how strong you want the final soap to be.

Second soap. Just from looking at the picture I don't see anything wrong with it. The amount of clay could be the culprit. Maybe try cutting the remainder with a thin bladed knife?

You did right to cool off your soap when you saw moisture beading, BTW.

I think your soaps look just fine, especially at your level of experience. My first soap overheated and had a big crack and hump in the middle. But it didn't separate and was perfectly decent soap.

Don't give up!

 

[Soaplady22]

I personally get confused by the percentages, but I am comfortable with the idea of using from .5 - 1 oz PPO depending on the scent strength and whether it's an EO or FO. I seldom go to the full 1 oz. however.
~hth

 

[judymoody]

I measure in grams so I find .5 - 1.0 oz PPO confusing! My % range and your PPO range are the same.

 

[QuanahRose]

Thanks for the lessons

Thank you very much for the feedback. Couple more questions based on what all of you have told me.

I will scale back the clay amount for my next batch.

On the tea tree oil, I was concerned about adding too much more oil to the recipe.

Question -- when SoapCalc says 5% discount does that mean the recipe it calculates already allows for 5% of the oils to remain unsaponified? Or, do I add an amount of essential oil/fragrance to equal 5% of the other oils in the recipe?

Question -- if a recipe results in a loaf that fails to gel totally, even though well wrapped and left to saponify for 18-24 hours, what do I do the next time I make that recipe to ensure I get a complete gel so I have consistent color throughout the soap?

In closing, seems to me like I have to change my first instinct from 'oh no, another failure' to 'OK, that looks like it has potential. Let's give it some time.'

Can't wait to see how tomorrow's batch is going to turn out.

Goodnight.

 

[carebear]

just to clarify some of the earlier discussion - partial gel IS only cosmetic, but the ungelled parts of the soap will take longer to completely react and be zapless. that's why you were getting magenta on the outside edges. give it more time and it'll be fine. I don't like phenolphthalein cuz it's a pain, but it will work. A much better choice is simply your tongue.

regarding the lye discount - yes soapcalc is decreasing the lye in the formula to leave ~5% of the oils unreacted. calculate the amount of fragrance or essential oil based on the whole amount of oils in the formula. you can do it by a %, but most of us are a bit looser and use .5 - 1 oz per pound of oils (very roughly 3-6%).

regarding getting a complete gel - that's going to take some experimentation on your part. you need to retain more heat, but be aware that if soap over heats you get other issues (mainly cosmetic as well). You have a wooden mold + blankets, so you could try giving it another day, adding some heat with a heating pad, or pre-warming your mold in a preheated oven. Some also force gel by putting the mold with the fresh soap "batter" into the warm oven, but I myself have issues with overheating if I do that.

I usually use a tablespoon of clay per pound of oils, and you have almost 3# so I don't think it was too much.

I really don't know why the second batch crumbled. Perhaps a result of overheating.

 

[Fragola]

Essential oils don't count as oils to the soap. They fall in the additives group, together with clay, herbs, salt, sugar, etc.