Trying the famous shampoo bar recipe - feedback please

[gigisiguenza]

Since I've been unable to use any of my soaps long term due to them eventually causing drying or skin tightening (some way faster than others), I'm gonna take the suggestion made by several people and try using Genny's shampoo bar recipe as a foundation. It has no CO, which I think may be causing the dryness, so I'm hoping this will help determine if that's the issue. I've added my own tweaks (of course lol).

Genny's original
-----------------------------
30% - Avocado
10% - Castor
40% - Olive
10% - Shea
10% - Soybean
6% - SF
35% Lye Concentration
EOs - Tea Tree, Peppermint, Lavender
1 TBS sugar in lye water
Oils infused with Chamomile

My tweaks
--------------------------
30% - Avocado
5% - Castor
30% - Olive
20% - Shea
5% - Neem
10% - Safflower
6% - SF
33% Lye Concentration (lowered it to comp for shea)
Tea Tree EO & Peppermint FO
Aloe Juice for lye solution (instead of sugar)
Safflower Oil is infused with Chamomile (already have it on hand)
Spinach powder for color

I'm going to make a really small batch, maybe 1lb, so I can conserve supplies. I decided to boost the shea (more conditioning) and reduce the castor (the aloe should compensate and ensure lather). And I added neem because I've used a tablespoon or two in a hot soak and it helped with the eczema itchies quite a bit. I wish I had more EOs so I could scent it more naturally, but I'm using what I've got.

I wanted to make this tonight, but I'm too brain fried to focus, so I won't have time to try this until Sunday (assuming the world stays sane and I'm dealing with a crisis on Sunday), but I wanted to run this by you all before I tried it. Please feel free to tell me where it might see a problem. TIA

 

[shunt2011]

Give it a go. There's only one way to find out.

 

[Obsidian]

I don't know, I worry that much shea and the small amount of castor will really reduce lather. Castor is great for hair, I'd really suggest you boost it back to 10%

 

[KristaMarie]

Personally, I would up the castor and the neem, it's smelly but I love it in my shampoo bar!

 

[Susie]

Gigi-go back to basics on this. No scent other than neem. Eliminate any potential problems before you add to the issue. That way, if/when you add something that causes a problem, you know exactly what it is.

 

[penelopejane]

Gigi,
I think you are using it for your skin not hair - not that it matters much!

I really think Susie is right with this recipe.

If you have eczema leave out the EOs to start. My DH can't have any fragrance (including butters etc that have natural fragrance).

I tried to tweak this recipe and it didn't work so well. So then I tried just keeping the same % and substituting almond (or camellia) oil for the avocado and one recipe worked and the other is spongy.

It seems to be a particularly tricky recipe or it could just be me or those DSGs (Dreaded Soap Gremlins).

Please let us know how you go.

 

[Obsidian]

Duh, if you are using this for body then it should be good the way you reformulated.

 

[gigisiguenza]

I don't know, I worry that much shea and the small amount of castor will really reduce lather. Castor is great for hair, I'd really suggest you boost it back to 10%

Obsidian I'm going to be using it for a body bar, not shampoo bar, but I am rethinking the reduced castor now that I've slept and can think LOL

 

[gigisiguenza]

Gigi-go back to basics on this. No scent other than neem. Eliminate any potential problems before you add to the issue. That way, if/when you add something that causes a problem, you know exactly what it is.

Good idea Susie. It's such a teeny batch that I won't be stuck with lots of unscented bars, so I'll do the unscented.

 

[Misschief]

I'm doing this one along with you, Gigi. I couldn't face going to work today so I stayed home and made a small (6 oz) batch in my mini bars mold.

I substituted the soy oil for sunflower and added a tiny bit of patchouli. I know, for me, patchouli is a safe e.o. so I felt fine adding it. Now, I have to wait to try it - that's the hardest part!

 

[gigisiguenza]

I'm doing this one along with you, Gigi. I couldn't face going to work today so I stayed home and made a small (6 oz) batch in my mini bars mold.

I substituted the soy oil for sunflower and added a tiny bit of patchouli. I know, for me, patchouli is a safe e.o. so I felt fine adding it. Now, I have to wait to try it - that's the hardest part!

6oz? Hmmm I hadn't thought about doing one small enough for 2 bars only. That's a great idea. And yes, tea tree EO seems safe for me to use. I've put it into my hit soak and had no issues, so I'll try it on micro batch 2. I hope to make the micro batches on Sunday. Like you, I'm not sure how I'm going to wait for them to be ready

 

[IrishLass]

If you're going to make micro-batches, make sure you have the appropriate scale, i.e., one that can weigh accurately as low as .01g/.0005oz. I sometimes make micro-batches as small as 8 oz., but I'd never attempt it without my ultra sensitive Jenning's scale that can weigh as low as .01g./.0005oz

If you have a scale like that, wonderful, but for those that don't, the following info is for you: With batches smaller than 1 lb., the lye weight becomes very critical. At lower than a lb. batch weights, if the lye weight is off by even a fraction of a gram, you could either end up with a lye heavy batch or a more highly superfatted batch, depending on which direction the measurement is off.


IrishLass

 

[Dahila]

Dryness, very often caused by deficiency of VA and E and not drinking enough water. I have the problem too. I use my mild soaps and my lotion which takes care of that, mostly. I started to lower CO and add the lard, if you do not feel turned off by lard try it, please.
Oh coffee does not count as drink so does tea, )

 

[gigisiguenza]

If you're going to make micro-batches, make sure you have the appropriate scale, i.e., one that can weigh accurately as low as .01g/.0005oz. I sometimes make micro-batches as small as 8 oz., but I'd never attempt it without my ultra sensitive Jenning's scale that can weigh as low as .01g./.0005oz

If you have a scale like that, wonderful, but for those that don't, the following info is for you: With batches smaller than 1 lb., the lye weight becomes very critical. At lower than a lb. batch weights, if the lye weight is off by even a fraction of a gram, you could either end up with a lye heavy batch or a more highly superfatted batch, depending on which direction the measurement is off.


IrishLass

I didn't think of that, TY. I have a small digital scale designed for weighing small amounts of fine particles like clays (yet another craft thing that has yielded crossover tools lol). I think it will work as it measures to .01 decimal point.

 

[gigisiguenza]

Welcome to the Soap Making Forum! We're always looking for ways to improve our site, so feel free to post any comments or suggestions you may have here.

I do use lard, and in one of the variations I'm planning a micro batch of, I will be subbing lard for OO. We will see which of the multiple micro batches is best

 

[Misschief]

Both my recipe and my scale are in .01 ounces. I'm very cautious and slow in my measuring... I still remember my Chem classes.... not fondly but I do remember.

I will take all the advice I can get, though.

 

[penelopejane]

If you're going to make micro-batches, make sure you have the appropriate scale, i.e., one that can weigh accurately as low as .01g/.0005oz. I sometimes make micro-batches as small as 8 oz., but I'd never attempt it without my ultra sensitive Jenning's scale that can weigh as low as .01g./.0005oz

If you have a scale like that, wonderful, but for those that don't, the following info is for you: With batches smaller than 1 lb., the lye weight becomes very critical. At lower than a lb. batch weights, if the lye weight is off by even a fraction of a gram, you could either end up with a lye heavy batch or a more highly superfatted batch, depending on which direction the measurement is off.


IrishLass

Irish Lass what would be the resulting soap if you miss-measured?

I have a 500g batch of this recipe which is 3 days old and is spongy. I put it in a 100*F oven and turned the oven off as soon as it was made but it hasn't dried at all. It is not oily.
Would this be because I didn't measure accurately?
Or is there another reason it didn't work?

I made another 500g batch of this recipe on the same day, same size and it is fine.

 

[yinepu]

If you're going to make micro-batches, make sure you have the appropriate scale, i.e., one that can weigh accurately as low as .01g/.0005oz. I sometimes make micro-batches as small as 8 oz., but I'd never attempt it without my ultra sensitive Jenning's scale that can weigh as low as .01g./.0005oz


IrishLass

I've been looking for a super sensitive scale. Which model number is that one?

 

[houseofwool]

Both my recipe and my scale are in .01 ounces. I'm very cautious and slow in my measuring... I still remember my Chem classes.... not fondly but I do remember.



I will take all the advice I can get, though.

.01 oz is a fairly normal accuracy. If you are making batches under a pound, it really does need to be .01 grams.

I used to have one for dying wool. Try a head shop or Amazon.

 

[IrishLass]

Irish Lass what would be the resulting soap if you miss-measured?

I have a 500g batch of this recipe which is 3 days old and is spongy. I put it in a 100*F oven and turned the oven off as soon as it was made but it hasn't dried at all. It is not oily.
Would this be because I didn't measure accurately?
Or is there another reason it didn't work?

I made another 500g batch of this recipe on the same day, same size and it is fine.

Every scale comes with a -+ margin for error (usually -+ .2g or something like that). A 500g or a 1lb. batch is fine to make with a digital scale that can weigh down to 1g. The margin for error with such a scale in such batches is usually not critical enough to make any huge differences in the outcome of your finished soap (unless your scale is wonky), but with batches much smaller than 500g, the margin for error with such a scale grows very narrow indeed.

For example, a 1 gram discrepancy in a 4000g batch with the above type of scale may not be much of anything to write home about, but a 1g discrepancy in 100g batch on such a scale (depending on which way the discrepancy goes) is able to give you a soap with either a negative 1% super-fat or a positive 17% superfat. That's how critical things can get, and that's why a much more sensitive scale is highly recommended for small batches. It will widen up the margin of error to the point that it's not so critical anymore.

Here is a great post by DeeAnna that expounds more on this issue:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=382780&postcount=16

Also- the smaller the batch, the harder it is to gel.

I can't say for sure why your batch is spongy. While it's possible that it could be from a weight discrepancy, it could also be because it did not go through complete gel, or maybe it's from one of your additives (such as too much sugar, etc..), or maybe from your oil combination. What did you use in your recipe?

I've been looking for a super sensitive scale. Which model number is that one?

I bought mine from Lotioncrafter's (it's a Jennings- JSR 200), but you can buy it cheaper here: http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jennings-jsr-200.html



IrishLass