Some soap questions formulation, rancid oil, skin issues

[cynsofdm]

Newbie to the forum with my first questions. I'll head over to the intro board after posting this if ya'll would like to know more about me.
thanks for the advice

Hi All,

1. I would really like some info on telling if an oil has gone rancid. I have mostly only been able to find people saying "You'll know" and that isn't very helpful. I really do need some characteristics... how will it smell will it be a slightly off smell, or like over powering and knock you over.

The problem is I have some Sweet almond oil that I had lost and just found I've had it for probably 3 years, it's been closed and in the dark but has been through temperature fluctuations has it was in a cupboard in my carport. It smells slightly... I don't really know how to describe it... it could be a nutty sorta of smell or maybe musky would be a better description, but I haven't used sweet almond in so long I haven't the faintest idea if that is how it is supposed to smell or if it's too far gone to use for soaps.

Please help I really wanna start on some crock pot HP ASAP.

2. I have had to stop using my homemade soaps because my skin gets horribly dry and itchy in the winter. This makes em really sad. But even the super conditioning soaps with a 10-15% super fat (I am afraid to go any higher for fear of dreaded orange spots) in the best conditions... summer high humidity and so on... leave my skin with a squeaky tight feeling in the winter it gets simply awful with itchy, flaky skin. Mostly the soaps I've been making are 1/3rd lard, olive, and coconut. I also tried reducing the coconut and adding shea with still no luck. I even tried using lotions, aloe, and oils as after products but it still wasn't enough finally I just had to go get some super moisture body wash and quit using my homemade soaps in the winter.

Any suggestions? Would taking the coconut out completely help? Would a totally different formula? What about using KOH instead of NaOH?

If anyone wants to help me figure out a good formulation here are the oils I have at home. If I don't have them currently The only other oils I have quick enough access to are found at grocery stores.

Have on hand:
liquid lanolin
Castor oil
Olive oil
Shea butter
Coconut oil
Lard
and if it's not rancid the sweet almond
I also have beeswax though I dunno if it's really an oil.

Thanks so much for your help

 

[carebear]

sorry but I don't know that we can tell you how to tell it's rancid besides that it'll smell different than it does fresh, and of course probably smell bad. it's challenging to describe smells in words - kwim? sweet almond oil is very stable though, so it may well be ok.

as far as you reacting to soap = well some people are sensitive to different oils, and I've read about several who say they cannot tolerate coconut oil at all. WE are allergic to nuts in my house - so no nut oils for us. or maybe you just cannot tolerate the high pH of real soap and need to stick with a detergent product (most commercial soaps and I think pretty much all body wash products). or maybe your skin is so dry you need to abandon any cleaning product except for what my mom refers to as the "hot spots". (using KOH won't make a difference except you will have liquid soap instead)

 

[cynsofdm]

thanks for the reply. I just thought maybe it was the sodium that might have the drying effect. I suppose I'll just have to experiment.

Someone else said i should go purchase a new bottle of oil and compare the smells... I suppose that is what I will do. I know it's hard to explain smells. Mostly I was wondering if it was like a really powerful smell or just a slightly bothersome smell. like a towel that has gone musty and been washed but still has a lingering smell if you put it close to your face is slightly off, but you crack a rotten egg and YOU KNOW that one is bad.

For instance milk can sometimes smell a little strange but is perfectly fine, and for years when I was a kid I didn't really know what sour milk smelled like and quite often assumed milk was sour when it wasn't, because it just had a slightly off smell... then when I found out that real sour milk had a knock you over awful smell I knew all those times I had thought before I had rotten milk I was wrong.

the almond oil I have doesn't have a horrid rotten smell, but it does have a musty smell if I put my nose to the bottle. I've made soap with oils that smelled like that before (some older olive oil) and the smell lingered in the soap and was annoying, and could be smelled under the scent, but all the you'll know comments keep giving me the impression that it is a knock you over take the cap off and the whole house fills with stench kinda smell.

 

[Bunny]

You know what rancid oil smell reminds me of... an old oil painting. That's the only thing I can compare it to.

As for your soap, there may be hope for you yet. I found that I have to omit coconut oil completely in winter. I use a little PKO in place of it, but sometimes not even that. I use a lard/tallow blend (it's a meat shortening.... makes great soap), olive oil and safflower oil. Safflower actually lathers quite well and does not seem to make the soap soft at all. I decided to try it after I saw the results of a single-oil soap swap in another forum. The 100% safflower soap was lovely, hard, lathered very well and did not get DOS. So I use it in conjunction with lard/tallow and olive. Makes a real nice gentle soap. I use about 20% safflower, 50% meat fats, and the remaining olive. I might throw in 10% PKO and knock 10% off the olive sometimes. And I never superfat more than 5 to 6%. Really, superfatting more than that just reduces lather in my opinion, but some folks do love highly superfatted soap. You're right, it does often lead to DOS.

Anyway, try omiting your coconut altogether. Make sure you age your soap well too ( 8 to 12 weeks), that helps a lot, especially with any high oleic soap (like olive & lard soaps). Good luck sweetie!

 

[cynsofdm]

oh thanks for the help bunny I will try some of that advice

 

[welder]

Any biodiesel brewer or SVO user will confirm what Bunny said. Rancid oil smells somewhat similar to an old oil painting.

The reason for the similar smell is because of the oxidation process that happens in both WVO (waste vegetable oil) and the old oil forgotten in our cupboards. Oxidation occurs because of various causes: exposure to oxygen, exposure to chemical catalysts (usually metal ions) and exposure to heat.

The trace amounts of metal ions can enter the oil right from the machine that crushed the oil seeds.

The heat of use in deep fryers speeds the oxidation of oils.

The air in the top of an oil bottle isn't good for protecting the oil from oxidation, but who purges their oil bottles with argon?



Now I've got a question for you guys: What is DOS?