Soap without palm oil

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by musmar.firas, Feb 20, 2020.

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  1. Feb 20, 2020 #1

    musmar.firas

    musmar.firas

    musmar.firas

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    I try to run through soapcalc to figure out the recipe with high INC and low iodine and noticed that coconut oil needs to be high in most recipes in order to make INC +140.
    I use only liquid oils - I have only shea oi which is expensive compared to coconut.
    I use sunflower and olive oil in most recipes since they available and cheap choice for me.
    What is the minimum coconut % I can go for with olive and sunflower so I can have good soap?
    Note: I don't have palm oil here.
     
  2. Feb 20, 2020 #2

    penelopejane

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    You don’t need to use coconut at oil in soap at all.
    Castile (100%) olive oil makes a very hard bar after a long cure.
    Forget the soap calc numbers.

    Also try this as a body soap NOT a shampoo bar:
    https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/
     
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  3. Feb 20, 2020 #3

    amd

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    I rarely look at INS numbers, I have a recipe that I know performs well and has a good shelf life, so typically when I make recipe modifications I try to get the fatty acid profile and soap qualities inline with the recipe that I know. Here's what my recipe with 20% CO looks like for qualities and fatty acid profile:
    upload_2020-2-20_15-47-31.png

    Coconut oil is nice for soap, and many of us think that the lower the CO the nicer the soap, but really your skin will tell you what you like. Most of the people in my house can use 30% or more CO soaps without problems (I can't, my skin is severely dry and irritated). So stop worrying so much about hitting the "right numbers" in the calc, and just start trying your soaps. Make small batches, make small changes, give them a good and proper cure... and even if you don't like something now, label it and set it aside. You might come back in 4 months and find that soap is your perfect soap with a bit more age on it.
     
  4. Feb 21, 2020 #4

    Emmanuel

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    To be honest I use 70% olive 30% coco and it works great for me ! :)
    Why do you add sunflower ? Sunflower (in my experience) doesn't really add anything to better the soap. You will have harder bars if you use less sunflower and more olive so you can maybe cut down coco to 10%
    In my experience soap calc are not that relyable and the settings I like in my soap are not the one that the calc likes.
     
  5. Feb 21, 2020 #5

    shunt2011

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    I'm one who really dislikes high OO soap. It dries my skin out and I don't like the snotty lather. I like HO Sunflower or Safflower. I use between 15 & 22% CO. Everyone's skin is different.
     
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  6. Feb 21, 2020 #6

    IrishLass

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    Right here, silly!
    Don't depend too much on those numbers. They need to be taken with a grain of salt. They are fine when used as a plumb line of sorts when comparing with other batches you've made, but they are not the be-all/end-all that some folks hype them up to be. I've personally never, ever paid any attention to the iodine and INS numbers in my soap, and my soap is nevertheless wonderful.....we love it! For what it's worth, though, I just took a look at the SoapCalc print outs that I keep in my notebook of the soaps I've made over the years, and I noticed some formulas where the INS was as low as 105, and some were 135. I remember how those soaps turned out....they were lovely! I also noticed formulas I've made with much higher INS numbers, and they turned out lovely as well!

    Ditto^^^!!!


    IrishLass :)
     
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  7. Feb 22, 2020 #7

    musmar.firas

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    what is the recipe ? the photo shows the quality only.

    I use the sunflower to increase the quantity rather than quality. its cheap choice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2020
  8. Feb 22, 2020 #8

    DeeAnna

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  9. Feb 22, 2020 #9

    shunt2011

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  10. Feb 22, 2020 #10

    musmar.firas

    musmar.firas

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    I am new for soap making and started it as a hobby.
    Thanks for your advice , I was thinking to stop using the sunflower totally and use the coconut only because of the INC.

    For the recipe, I misunderstood her message .. I thought she missed capturing the whole screenshot.
     
  11. Feb 22, 2020 #11

    penelopejane

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    I started out trying to figure out all those numbers and then just wanted someone to give me a recipe that worked. Unfortunately, everyone's skin is different and someone else's "perfect" recipe might just not suit you at all. You really have to make a few tiny batches of soap with different recipes and fiddle with them until you come up with what suits your skin and your parameters for the "perfect" soap.
     
  12. Feb 23, 2020 #12

    musmar.firas

    musmar.firas

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    I totally agree. but my point as "new soapers", we need a startup recipes to work with. or at least basic ingredients.
    when I was introduced to SoapCalc.net, I thought of using the INC and Iodine as a benchmark for the recipe.
    now again i am back to block one and need to look again for new way to make a recipe.
     
  13. Feb 23, 2020 #13

    SeaSuds

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    deleted wrong post!
     
  14. Feb 23, 2020 #14

    Mobjack Bay

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  15. Feb 23, 2020 #15

    penelopejane

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    Try the recipe I referenced in post 2.
    Try 32/32/32/4 palm/olive/coconut/castor
    Make a salt bar
    If you are into animal fats make a bar with lard and one with tallow.

    These will give you the basis for a soap that will suit your skin and you’ll love to tweek until it is perfect for you.

    The 32/32/32/4 bar is seemingly perfect - a hard bubbly bar which is a go to recipe for many people who sell. Many men like it because it cleans. Some people find it too drying because of the high coconut. Some don’t want to use palm. Some find OO too expensive.

    Work out your own parameters after you’ve made a soap from each of those listed above and you will be well on your way to the perfect bar.
     
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  16. Feb 23, 2020 #16

    DeeAnna

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    This concept of "startup recipes" doesn't work very well in practice.

    A hypothetical new soaper asks for a newbie recipe. Someone suggests a well balanced recipe. New soaper responds they won't use animal fats or anything palm.

    Someone else suggests another recipe based on those criteria. New soaper responds with another objection that the fats suggested are impossible to find or too expensive. And so on.

    It is hard to know how to respond, so many just don't reply. That creates yet another problem because new soaper then gets the feeling they are being ignored.

    ***

    You have a very short list of fats you say you can use -- olive, sunflower and maybe some coconut. These fats are low in palmitic and stearic acids, which are desirable fatty acids that build longevity and hardness in a soap.

    You're pretty much limited to some type of soap that's mainly olive oil. Try 100% olive. Or try a 10-20% coconut oil with the balance being olive.

    If your sunflower oil is a high oleic type, you can substitute it for all or part of the olive. I'd use whichever one is cheaper.

    If the sunflower is not a high-oleic type, then I'd limit it to no more than 20% of the total fats. My preference would be 10% or less. Add to that coconut oil at 10-20% and the balance being olive.

    Use these guidelines to create a recipe. Try a small batch (500 grams of fats total), let it cure, and see what you think.

    No, I have not said anything about the NaOH and water weights. It's important to learn to use a soap recipe calculator to calculate these weights. Reasonable settings would be a 2:1 water:lye ratio (33% lye concentration) and 5% superfat. If you want us to double check your work, post your recipe here and ask for someone to look at it and verify the numbers.

    Even if someone hands you a recipe complete with water and NaOH weights, you need to check each and every recipe with a soap recipe calculator for correctness. Don't blindly trust anyone's numbers -- do the calculations to make sure the soap will be safe.
     
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  17. Feb 24, 2020 #17

    IwantItgreen

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    Here's a great "beginner" soap recipe. I call it my "walmart" recipe.
    Walmart GV Shortening with tallow & palm - 60%
    Coconut Oil - 20%
    Canola Oil - 15%
    Castor Oil - 5%
     
  18. Feb 24, 2020 #18

    szaza

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    I completely agree with what DeeAnna sais above.

    Fwiw, I just wanted to add that I've made soaps with only those 3 oils you mention and for me the sweet spot is around 20-25% coconut oil. I also find soaps made with a lot of high oleic sunflower oil (also sold as sunflower oil for frying) are less drying to my skin than soaps with a lot of olive oil, though the olive soaps tend to be a bit more bubbly. But as said above, most of this is highly personal, so you'll need to experiment yourself and discover what you like best. Good luck and happy soaping!

    (Slightly off topic, @amd do you mind if I steal your FA profile? I've been playing around with different recipes lately and yours looks awesome)
     
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  19. Feb 24, 2020 #19

    shunt2011

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    The OP isn't from the states. Has limited access to stuff according to their post.
     
  20. Feb 24, 2020 #20

    musmar.firas

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    great advice .. thanks dearly.
     

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