Settlement on top of LS batch

Discussion in 'Liquid Soap and Cream Soap Forum' started by Carl, Mar 9, 2019.

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  1. Mar 9, 2019 #1

    Carl

    Carl

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    I'm getting this settlement on top of my LS batch in my croc pot.
    Any ideas what this is?

    The soap has been sitting in my croc pot for a few days covered. It is not a film. It does not have a texture and you cannot feel it. It's almost like a fine powder settled on my batch.

    This is not the same film that you use to determine if you need to dilute more. It is something different.

    I included a picture because I knew someone would ask. I just stirred about an hour ago, but you can see it starting to reform on the left hand side

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GvLLxEoENyNoZfM_5fceW4ttgdXscFG-
     
  2. Mar 10, 2019 #2

    Carl

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  3. Mar 10, 2019 #3

    IrishLass

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    That is totally weird! What were your ingredients?


    IrishLass :)
     
  4. Mar 10, 2019 #4

    Carl

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    Coconut Oil 50%
    Olive Oil 26%
    Safflower Oil 10%
    Castor Oil 10%
    Avocado Oil 4%

    I'm high on Coconut oil because I like the big bubbles, LOL.

    Superfatted @ 3%

    I diluted at H2O weight = paste weight.
    I then added 10 more oz of H2O to get rid of the layer that forms on top.

    This is a layer, but it has no texture. If you closed your eyes and stuck your hand in the pot, you would not be able to tell that it is there.

    This particular batch has Liquid Germal Plus @ 1/2%
     
  5. Mar 23, 2019 #5

    Carl

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    Still can't figure this out. But I can get rid of it by dropping a clean paper towel on top of the batch; letting it suck it up, and then trashing it. It takes about 3 iterations, but works.
     
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  6. Mar 29, 2019 #6

    maya

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    I’ve seen that. I’ve always thought it was unsaponifiables.
     
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  7. Apr 17, 2019 #7

    Zany_in_CO

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    I agree, Maya. That's what it looks like to me too. Both Olive Oil and Avocado oil are high in unsaponifiables -- plus soaping at 3% SF may leave some oil unsaponified and hence, white stuff rises to the top during the 2-week sequester period. This may be corrected by adding enough KOH solution (a bit at a time) to warmed soap until the white stuff disappears.

    Another problem I've seen happen with this result is not cooking the batch long enough to make sure it's fully saponified before dilution. Whether using the Zap test, Pheno drops, or the clarity test with soap & water, if it's not ready, wait. I've waited as long as 2-3 days (or more) for a batch to test neutral with Pheno drops, then I know it's ready to dilute.

    HTH
     
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  8. Apr 17, 2019 #8

    Susie

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    Unsaponifiables typically settle to the bottom. My vote is for fatty acids.

    I would probably pour the LS into a gravy separator cup and let it sit until the layer forms. Pour the clear soap out of the bottom until you get almost to the cloudy stuff. Rinse your cup and repeat until you have eliminated all of that layer.
     
  9. May 2, 2019 #9

    Carl

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    So I bottled some of the soap you see in the first picture.

    When I first bottled it, the white dust or whatever you want to call it, kept settling at the top of the bottle. It was kinda ugly.

    It's been sitting in the bottles for a few weeks and I just took a look over.

    Wow, it now looks nice. I'm not sure I can explain.

    Check it out:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1II1cOhNt4qI7DMLvHHnr6M7Z9BllMIzH/view?usp=sharing
     
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  10. May 2, 2019 #10

    Susie

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    I would then vote for foam/bubbles. It happens. I've never seen it crack like it did in the first pic, but the proof is in the last pic.
     
  11. May 3, 2019 #11

    Zany_in_CO

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    Well done! Sure looks great in the latest picture. Nice car too! :)
     
  12. May 3, 2019 #12

    Carl

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    Thanks. I thought the car helped show the clarity of the soap. You can see the wheel through the bottle of soap. That's from my calendar.
     
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  13. May 3, 2019 #13

    Susie

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    The car backdrop did help. It also showed *something* floating on the top, probably bubbles.
     
  14. Jun 3, 2019 #14

    Carl

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    So So Strange.

    Last picture I gave you was 1 month ago.

    Now that I flipped the calendar to June, here is the exact same bottle you saw on May 1.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ud9-VujqdgwUgVaVh07KkdglwghDyqWp

    About 1/4 inch of settlement on top and cloudy.

    I've done nothing with it other than sitting on my desk.

    I can't explain.
     
  15. Jun 3, 2019 #15

    Zany_in_CO

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  16. Jun 3, 2019 #16

    DeeAnna

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    I made a batch of LS in January that is 70% HO sunflower and 30% avocado oil. The diluted soap has a thin floating layer of white material. This white layer has remained stable on my soap, however. The photos show the soap after it has been sitting quietly in a cupboard for weeks. l attribute the layer to unsaponifiable material from the avocado. (Sorry, @Susie -- I think unsaponifiables sometimes do float, although I agree they often sink!)

    As far as your LS, @Carl, I associate a layer of floating, fluffy curd-like material as in your last photo with (1) too much fat or fatty acids or (2) soap that is high in stearic or palmitic acid that has a low solubility. As Zany explained, you can add some KOH to see if it will saponify the material. If (1), the soap will start out zappy, but the layer diminish or disappear and the zap will lessen or disappear. If (2), the layer won't disappear and you will find the soap will stay about as zappy as it started.

    P1030729 800.jpg P1030730 800.jpg
     
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  17. Jun 4, 2019 #17

    Carl

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    Yes that's what I get all the time! Mine looks exactly like that. It is too thin to strain and it goes away as soon as you start moving the container around.
     

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