Melt and pour just as good as cold process?

Discussion in 'Melt & Pour Forum' started by Sharee, Aug 25, 2019.

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  1. Sep 2, 2019 #61

    MGM

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    Honestly, I might do quite the opposite.. Get some M&P, gently heat it in the micro on low power, colour it, scent it, pour it into a simple mould, any shape, really. You can always cut it after. Research is great, but you need at least a first foray until you create challenges that no one has achieved....
     
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  2. Sep 3, 2019 #62

    bookreader451

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    Melt and pour will not swirl like that no matter what you do. You need to understand the nature of MP and the strengths and weaknesses.
     
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  3. Sep 3, 2019 #63

    Carly B

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    Sharee, I made my first cold processed soap today after doing M&P and rebatch for years. MGM is right--you need to try how it works, first. M&P is much more fluid--the colors don't swirl, they blend. Think about it like pouring two colors of jello--they aren't going to stay separate until they have hardened up--you try to swirl cherry jello and lemon jello and you'll get an orange colored cherry lemonade flavor.

    If you want to see some really cool things to do with M&P, look on youtube for Koala Soap videos. I learned some M&P stuff to do with color that I had never even thought about before. It was very inspiring.
     
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  4. Sep 7, 2019 #64

    earlene

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    Sharee, I have seen actual MP soaps with similar to CP techniques swirls, but how they are achieved was ususally quite different than the CP swirling technique. So you might have to go about it slightly differently to get the same look. With MP, when the soap is too hot, and you pour the the colors together, they tend to flow together and get muddy. So when you try the technique in the video of the Zig Zag Cosmic Swirl I think you'll find it works best if you pour double handed with fairly thick MP base. See the first soap in this link for a double-handed pour technique:

    Here is a Soap Queen video about swirling MP soap. This one is poured in layers, using a spoon to get the swirl as the layers are built:


    This one is built in layers as well with different colors poured as a drop swirl. The temperature and how 'set up' each layer is between pours is crucial to maintain color integrity with MP soap.

    Here's one with waves in MP, but as a loaf mold, so probably not exactly what you are looking for. Still pretty nice end result:
     
  5. Sep 7, 2019 #65

    melinda48

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    We find that our cp soaps sell well but folks don’t “warm to” m&p at all.
     
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  6. Sep 16, 2019 #66

    SoapySuds

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    I won’t touch MP with a ten foot pole.

    When the bases have stuff like sls, sles, sucrose (sugar) as a major ingredient, among alcohols and salt... that stuff makes my skin dry out and itchy and my hair fall out.

    CP naturally has glycerin in it and is made from nice oils, not petroleum.

    Come to the dark side, CP is amazing!
     
  7. Sep 16, 2019 #67

    Sultana

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    Not all MP bases have those ingredients in them. The base that SFIC puts out for instance is a great MP base without all the chemicals that some manufacturers have
     
  8. Sep 16, 2019 #68

    SoapySuds

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    Will it cost me an arm and a leg? I really need them both.
     
  9. Sep 16, 2019 #69

    Sultana

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    They do have a minimum if you buy from them directly. Works out to be about $500.00. Brambleberry I believe sells their base. I am sure there are others but don't have names. Maybe a goggle search can provide more names or members of the group can.
     
  10. Sep 16, 2019 #70

    SoapySuds

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    Like I said, I need both of my arms and legs. I've got way less money into my soap than that... I mean, way more soap supplies to make more soap than $500 of MP base will provide me with. Brambleberry wants my first born child. I have told them no, repeatedly.
     
  11. Sep 16, 2019 #71

    shunt2011

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    Most of them have propylene glycol in them. Which I've had people turn their noses up at. Even SFIC.
     
  12. Sep 16, 2019 #72

    Sultana

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    SFIC has a base that is propylene glycol free as well. You just have to buy more to meet the minimum.

    Sorry, like everything else in life I guess you get what you pay for. Soaping is a lot of fun whether it be for hobby or you are running a soaping business and there is never enough money to buy all the great soaping and B &B ingredients, molds etc that you want. If there was I would need additional warehouse space lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2019
  13. Sep 16, 2019 #73

    JoeyJ

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    Dean has just started uploading a heap of new videos - very clever guy.
    Those soaps are stunning! perfectly coloured!
    Sorry to say, Melt and Pour and Cold Process are nothing like each other, but each has its own unique advantages and uses, and whoever crafts and creates with either are worthy to be called "artists".
    My shock experience with drying qualities of SFIC clear melt and pour...I remelted a heap of Melt and Pour scraps down to a delicious chocolatey syrup to pour in to icecream cone molds, it was drippy and messy like melt and pour is...always going setting up before youre finished pouring, and I was constantly washing the spills off my hands. The next day my hands were so dry like I have never seen them ever before! and three days later my fingertips still have scales.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  14. Sep 17, 2019 #74

    SoapySuds

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    I can purchase high quality oils from other suppliers and get them at a much lower price. Jewards is reasonable compared to brambleberry, and they're on the high end. They also carry MP soap base.

    There are suppliers with great silicone molds at a lesser price than BB.

    If two suppliers are purchasing their products from the same source, but one is astronomically higher than the other and has a purple and white banner... sometimes you just pay for pretty packaging. The substance is the same.

    Snake oil is always better from the person who knows all about it, I guess. :smallshrug:

    I still won't purchase MP soap. :)
     
  15. Oct 20, 2019 #75

    SunRiseArts

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    Gorgeous I personally do not find them harsh, and way better than any commercial soap. I love how one can be very creative with MP, so I am a fan.

    They l also IMO retain scent better, and are great for gift giving.
     
  16. Oct 20, 2019 #76

    cmzaha

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    To be fair, there are some very nice M&P bases available and not all people can use lye-based soaps. We are all entitled to our opinions but there is no harm in using m&p and some very creative soaps are made with it. A poorly made bar of soap can cause skin irritation and a bar of lye-based soap can come closer to causing hair to fall out than an actual syndet m&p bar will. Actually most m&p bases are no longer actual syndet anymore only the ultra-clear bases. I do happen to know people that have to use syndet bars. Essentials by Catalina happen to make a very nice clear and ultra-clear base that is made by them. Not all bases are made the same and propylene glycol is used as a humectant and used in antifreeze because it does not kill animals if they happen to drink it if some have leaked on the ground. Some things get a bad rap that does not necessarily deserve it. No, I have no intention of starting an argument here, this is just my opinion.
     
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  17. Oct 20, 2019 #77

    Adobehead

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    I used M&P successfully for the first 3 years, then I changed to cold process only. The M&P was very commerically successful and it was fun to do. And it smelled great with the Essential Oils I used. I put in some jojoba oil as a "superfat" idea and it never bothered my sensitive skin.

    Still, nothing like stirring up my own formula, I don't use packaged food or pudding mix, etc. Same thing, I like to do it the hard way! But I admit, I would like to make a little bit of it the way I used to, it was so pretty.
     
  18. Oct 20, 2019 #78

    math ace

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    YES INDEED! I was able to use EVERY SINGLE SCENT in Melt and Pour. For instance, I LOVE florals which are notoriously naughty in CP. Additionally, I like fruity smells like STRAWBERRY... Oh wait, very few strawberry based fragrances survive the CP process.

    As far as scent lasting, I am using a bar of M & P soap that I made a year ago, scented with Spearment EO and it is totally delicious. Meanwhile, I've spent the last 6 months testing fragrances from various suppliers trying to locate fragrances that will last the at least 4 months in CP soap. I'm averaging 20% of the fragrances that I try being winners in CP at the 4 month mark. Whereas, all the fragrances, 100% of the fragrances, work in M&P. Not to mention, I have to use TWICE the fragrance oil in CP soap.

    At the end of the day, there are some major POSITIVES to working with M & P soap. This is ESPECIALLY true if your goal is
    1.) Have a fun and practical craft outlet
    2.) Start the hobby without investing a ton of money in supplies.
    3.) Be able to produce something that can be used within a few days.
    4.) Make super small amounts - like 1 to 4 bars of soap at one time.
     
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  19. Oct 21, 2019 #79

    SoapySuds

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    No argument here, just discussion.

    If you understand the chemistry behind soap and how NaOH and KOH react with H2O in an environment, a properly cured bar of soap will be fine for just about any persons skin, even one that was made with excessive lye. Plus, all soap, including syndets are made with lye. Basic chemistry.

    A CP bar that still has active lye in it should never be sold for anything other than utility purposes. But if it’s been sitting around and stored properly, over time there will be no lye left in the bar. No lye, no dissolving of skin or hair, no hair loss.

    Using lye in soap making is no worse than using drain cleaner. Liquid plumber is a lye solution, that has other chemicals not suitable for soap making, but if you are comfortable sloshing that stuff around, you should be comfortable in using lye. And so much less is used for a small batch of soap than what gets tossed down the drain.

    I recall very recently picking up a package of a MP base and read the ingredients on it. Sugar was the first ingredient. Actually it was Sucrose, which is just another name for sugar. But it was still sugar nonetheless.

    Propylene glycol, I won’t eat stuff with that in it and I won’t put it on my body. I’ve watched dogs have seizures because I gave a dog cookie coated with a glaze that was mostly propylene glycol to a dog. You cannot convince me otherwise because I’ve seen what it can do firsthand in a closely watched, isolated environment. Not everyone or every dog reacts to it, but it’s the few affected that makes me realize it’s not that great of a product.

    I stopped using over the counter products because my hair was falling out and I now make my own shampoo from KOH and a variety of oils, and scents that are paraben and phthalate free. My hair has grown back. It’s thicker than it was before and it healthier than it’s been forever.

    I’ve looked at making my own melt and pour, but it seems impossible to do without Propylene glycol. I simply won’t use it.

    I’ve only been able to find one MP without propylene in it, it has mixed reviews. If I feel necessary to have to have it, I might order it, but currently I love my regular CP soap made by me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  20. Oct 21, 2019 #80

    cmzaha

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    Sorry, but some of your above information is incorrect and I Do understand the chemistry of making soap. Even though I may not be a chemist I do not appreciate you indicating I do not know. I have one daughter and I also have one customer that cannot use lye-based soap. Not all syndet based are made with lye. Many clear and Ultra Clear bases do not use soap as a base. Please get Your facts straight.

    Also, people like my daughter with epilepsy could not work with lye so she could only use m&p base and she did gorgeous work making and selling over a ton (literally) of product a year when she was going strong.
     
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