Can Prang tempura powder be used in melt & pour soap making or cold process soap making?

[akseattle]

Can Prang tempura powder be used in melt & pour soap making or cold process soap making? As a HOBBY only, I recently started making soap with melt and pour soap base (although I have bought several oils so that I can make cold process soap- just haven't gotten up the courage - or had the time.) In the meantime, I'm getting a little frustrated by the lack of predictability in the coloring of the mica powders I've bought. I've bought 13 different micas- 4 oz of each and I'm not able to get the colors I want- Especially greens, orange, and purple, a predictable shade of blue, or predictable shade of brown.
It occurred to me that I have some big containers of Prang's tempera powder from when my kids were little and we did alot of art work. I have green, blue, yellow, and red - the basic colors that you find in a crayon box. This kids tempera never failed on the color- of course, it was only mixed with water...
Can I use these in either melt & pour soap base OR cold process. I've been making soap one bar at a time- just to experiment with colors and additives like oatmeal, poppy seeds and coffee. That part has been really successful. But, the colors have been unpredictable- although some pleasant surprises, I also want to be able to execute a plan!! I'd like to put leaves, flowers, an various scenes on my soap.
If I put a tad of tempera powder into the mica, will it lose it's pearliness (or worse)?
Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[basti]

What are the micas you're using? Are you using clear or white melt and pour base? How are you adding it to your base?

 

[akseattle]

I am using Ceya, Seisso, and Limino. I've used them in clear melt and pour and also in white melt and pour. I did a bunch of research on the internet last night. I found mixed responses- some said tempera is not FDA approved and so, should not be used in soap. I looked on the FDA website but couldn't find anything. Prang Tempura powder is certified non toxic and so, is routinely used in elementary schools. But, I found an interesting article "Mica powder vs Pigment Powder" on a website called The Blue Bottle Tree. It said many "micas" that are sold online are a mixture of "mica" and "pigment." (It provided a link to a vendor on Amazon- hard to tell exactly what was being sold, a mica powder or a pigment powder.) Pigment is ground up minerals (just like mica), and is mixed with binders- the cheapest binders being cornstarch or chalk. It also said many micas sold online might contain chalk as an extender to get the price down. It said, it is these additives that make colors unpredictable (this is website for potters & painters, etc.). I assume in soap, those extra additives could react differently with lye, etc. Anyway, this morning before going to work, I decided to make a bar of soap using my tempera. I made a geometrical bar of soap with green (tempera) in clear M&P, yellow (tempera), white 3 butter soap, and lemon yellow (ceya). With just a tiny amount of green tempera, the clear soap turned a deep green (unexpected!) With a tiny amount of yellow tempera, the clear soap turned a very even bright yellow. Since I didn't expect the green to be so green, I added more clear soap and it was a very pretty even green. I topped it with the lemon yellow (one of the few predictable micas so far...). I left home before it hardened but I'm very excited to get home to see how this bar of soap turned out.

I put the mica in a 3oz paper cup (spoon) and add a little alcohol to mix it up. I then add it to the soap base when the base has reached about 120 degrees.

 

[basti]

I am using Ceya, Seisso, and Limino.

This itself may be your issue. Mica and other "soap" supplies on Amazon can often be... well... low quality. If you're having issues getting consistent colors in MP, then you'll definitely have issues with CP soap using these colorants. I would wholeheartedly recommend picking up colors from a place like Nurture Soap or Mad Micas. They are far higher quality and may get you the consistent results you want.

Personally, I wouldn't use the tempura in soap. Yes, it's non-toxic, that doesn't mean its meant to be used in skincare. It has the potential to stain surfaces, towels, or skin. Obviously, you've already tried making some but even if it works and doesn't stain, I wouldn't give bars that use this powder to anyone else (and definitely not sell) as they're not approved colorants.

 

[akseattle]

What are the micas you're using? Are you using clear or white melt and pour base? How are you adding it to your base?

Basti, do you use tempera powder? If you don't, have you ever tried it? Or, have you avoided the use of tempera for any particular reason?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

You may want to read this thread about Crayola Crayons. As a hobbyist early on I used them to color my soaps. Not all colors work well but the Cerulean Blue is awesome. Many Newbies like myself also used them because a box of 8 colors was a lot cheaper than micas, oxides, lakes and dye approved by the FDA for soap.

I corresponded with Binney & Smith, the manufacturer of Crayolas, early in my experimental phase. They said the reason their Crayolas aren't certified for use in soap making is because that's not their intended use and it would be expensive to have them approved by the FDA for that purpose.

Whether you use Crayolas (pigment) or tempera pigments, neither are approved in soap for that reason.

HTH

 

[akseattle]

Basti, thank you for your response. I only just saw it today. The horse is definitely out of the barn- as you said- I already tried the tempera. Yesterday, I had tried green and yellow. Today, I used green and yellow again, but also red. What I wanted was pink. So I added Ceya's Diamond White Pearlescence. It promptly turned the red into orange! I was making some more geometrical designs in soap bars, but I wanted to repeat the colors from yesterday in two bars, and try two bars in a slightly different palate. So, one bar was yellow, white, and orange. It came out beautifully. I had actually been trying to unsuccessfully to find a nice orange. Since I really wanted yellow, white and pink, I tested some of Ceya's Carnation Pink. It really wasn't the pink I was looking for- strong hint of rose violet or something. So, I put it aside. I'll do something else with that.
Just so you know. Tempera is completely water soluble. That's why its used with children, cuz they can drip it all over and it doesn't stain. I also washed my hands with some to see if it left any traces of colorant/ pigment in the sink or anywhere, and there was none at all. But, I understand your concern about its unknown nature. I just started making soap as a hobby. I'm so excited about my soaps, I am definitely giving them to friends and family. I know it sounds terrible but, most women I know have been dying their hair since they were in high school- first to look blonde, etc. now to hide their grey. Hair products are a little more natural these days, but for the most part, they have seriously nasty stuff in them. So, if my friends don't mind dumping chemicals on their head, I don't think they'll bat an eye at tempera. I have a brother that really into more natural products. He makes his own hand lotion by pressing borage that grows in his yard. I read the post that Zany_in_Co referred to about Crayolas. It also discussed natural colorants like turmeric and cumin. I will probably make my brother a bar of soap using turmeric (although I'm using melt & pour, not sure it is 100% natural- it has alot of ingredients... ) But, I appreciate your comments, and your perspective. If I ever make soap in a more serious way, I'd want it to be more natural. So, I would give up the tempera (and the melt & pour). But, everything has its place....

Zany,
I read the thread about coloring soap with Crayolas. After I read the article on Pigment Powder on the Blue Bottle Tree, I have to admit, I started wondering why I couldn't use that 30 year old eye shadow that's been sitting in a forgotten bin somewhere in my house. So, I actually liked your early efforts and willingness, and that of the other posters on that thread, to try all sorts of colorants. That is, after all, how colorants were developed. Indigenous people were probably grinding up something for dinner or for first aid and got themselves all stained up. Next thing, they probably knit a hat in that color. I have probably already bought enough mica to last me a lifetime. I certainly have enough tempera powder to last me two lifetimes ( I have 4 1 lb containers! ), so, I probably won't be going to any crayon sales. I know this will probably seem pretty irreverent on this soap making forum, especially to serious soapers. But, my Carnation Pink mica isn't what I want. I have some red mica that I will try mixing with the Diamond White Pearlescence. If that turns orange, I'm going to dig through our old art supplies and find myself a pink crayon. I'm going to try making myself some pink soap! I'll keep you posted! As to Amazon micas. Amazon has its pros and cons. It made it easy and inexpensive to get access to soap making products to try out this hobby. But, as Bastir says, there is probably a range on the quality. Anyway, Zany, thanks for sending me to the Crayola thread!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Anyway, Zany, thanks for sending me to the Crayola thread!

You're welcome!

I certainly have enough tempera powder to last me two lifetimes ( I have 4 1 lb containers! ), so, I probably won't be going to any crayon sales.

Just to be clear, I would have no problem using tempura to color soap. But that's just me. And you are correct about "I know this will probably seem pretty irreverent on this soap making forum, especially to serious soapers." I know very well from experience that is true. As hobbyists I think we can enjoy a certain degree of leeway that "serious soapers" don't have.

My point is, Crayolas are made with pigments, i.e., same as water-based tempera powder. Although not specifically sanctioned by the FDA for use in soap, pigments are GRAS (Generally Regarded as Safe) and non-toxic.

I'm going to dig through our old art supplies and find myself a pink crayon. I'm going to try making myself some pink soap!

With that much tempera on hand, for pink, I would mix a little red into white to get a blush pink or use a bit more red for a Pepto Bismol or whtever shade.

With a white M&P base, you could even dilute the red in water or alcohol or oil (not sure what works for M&P), with no white, before adding to the base.
Might work?

I'm looking forward to seeing pics!

 

[akseattle]

Zany, I've attached photos of my green, yellow and white soap bar. The green and yellow was done w tempera powder. The thin yellow layer on the top (hard to see in the photo) was with lemon yellow mica (the control part of my experiment.) So, I did try mixing white into the red to get pink. But the white was mica. It looked like a good shade of pink until mixed into the soap (clear M &P.) At that point, it turned bright orange! I made one bar with the orange. I then tried to make a bar with pink using Ceya's Carnation Pink mica. It was really more of a reddish violet pin- a fine color but not what I had in mind- not with this yellow. So, I put it aside and made another orange bar. But, you're right, instead of looking for a pink crayon (which has more ingredients, so a greater likelihood of instability,) I should try using the red tempera in a white soap base!! Now that I think of it, I got a really nice mint shade a couple weeks ago by putting a very dark green mica into a white soap base. I actually have some red mica - I'll have to do a comparison test. As long as I'm experimenting and comparing, I'll have to experiment with red tempera and red mica, and I hope I don't get skewered for this by anyone on this forum, but, think I'll have to hunt down a pink crayon to include in the experiment!!

 

[dmcgee5034]

Hi @akseattle - fun experiments! I order a lot of my supplies from BrambleBerry. They are in Bellingham, if you ever get up that way. They have sales on micas and pigments (and more LOL - have fun ), and have in store pickup so you could save shipping.

 

[akseattle]

Dmcgee, I actually started out by looking for supplies on the Brambleberry site. However, other than saying how LONG shipping might take, they don't have any information about costs for shipping & handling. I emailed to them a couple times asking about this but they never responded. So, I started looking other options. I know that they operate out of Bellingham because my girlfriend who introduced me to soaping- she soaps very casually as a part of many other crafts she does- told me that Brambleberry is located in Bellingham. However, their website doesn't give any physical address or provide information about a physical store front. Do you have an address for their physical storefront? I would love to get it from you (if forum rules permit.) It's been a long time since I've been to Bellingham (lately to Mt. Vernon occasionally ), but if I make up that far, I will DEFINITELY plan on going there!

 

[artemis]

However, their website doesn't give any physical address.....

It's at the very bottom of every page in tiny letters.

But, after googling for a minute, I'm not sure they do pick up anymore.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany, I've attached photos of my green, yellow and white soap bar.

Well done! Keep up the good work!

 

[dmcgee5034]

Dmcgee, I actually started out by looking for supplies on the Brambleberry site. However, other than saying how LONG shipping might take, they don't have any information about costs for shipping & handling. I emailed to them a couple times asking about this but they never responded. So, I started looking other options. I know that they operate out of Bellingham because my girlfriend who introduced me to soaping- she soaps very casually as a part of many other crafts she does- told me that Brambleberry is located in Bellingham. However, their website doesn't give any physical address or provide information about a physical store front. Do you have an address for their physical storefront? I would love to get it from you (if forum rules permit.) It's been a long time since I've been to Bellingham (lately to Mt. Vernon occasionally ), but if I make up that far, I will DEFINITELY plan on going there!

I looked up their address on Google Earth and saw a sign saying in store pick up, but you are right, @artemis, might be old and outdated. Anyways, happy soaping, @akseattle

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Dmcgee, I actually started out by looking for supplies on the Brambleberry site.

TIP: Put an "@" before the name like this @dmcgee5034, so the member will be sure to see your post.

 

[akseattle]

These are the bars I made using tempera (not for the white). The orange is red tempera with Diamond White Mica. The bottom (orange) kept the iridescent quality of the diamond white mica and is not as pure an orange as the other sections in orange. The colors on the green and yellow are more true to life than my first pic I posted (except the inside yellow doesn't look as bright as it looks in real life.

 

[Savage Daughter]

I just wanted to point out that TEMPURA is an edible Japanese food, while TEMPERA powder used for paints is NOT edible I got confused from the top down

 

[akseattle]

@QuasiQuadrant , thanks for pointing that out, I now see I made that typo about every other time I typed the word.... I can see that it would be particularly confusing in the title of the post!

 

[Savage Daughter]

@QuasiQuadrant , thanks for pointing that out, I now see I made that typo about every other time I typed the word.... I can see that it would be particularly confusing in the title of the post!

I saw 'tempura' then some mention of something edible, so I was thinking something like panko crumbs, which confused me to begin with, thinking panko crumbs??? in soap????

Then I started seeing reference to crayons, various colorants & then noticed the different spelling in a few different posts....and finally caught on

I just figured that if I was confused, someone else might be as well

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I just wanted to point out that TEMPURA is an edible Japanese food, while TEMPERA powder used for paints is NOT edible I got confused from the top down

Good catch!