Made shampoo... turned out well, but would like to thicken it

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riffwraith

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Hi

I made some shampoo. I used black soap, which I melted, and threw in a tea I made of some herbs, and also some Jojoba Oil, Argan Oil, and some Vit.E oil.

The shampoo is good, but is pretty close to the consistency of water. What can I use to thicken it?

Thank in advance.
 

shunt2011

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Unfortunately, what you're making is not shampoo. You're diluting soap. No way to thicken it. Plus keep in mind that soap is not hair friendly due to the high PH. Some can use it but many like me had their hair ruined.
 

cmzaha

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Black Soap is a very harsh soap, to begin with, so it is a double whammy for hair. Shunt is very correct all you did is add oils to soap you did not make shampoo, so no matter what you do with it it will be unfavorable for your hair and most likely leave an oily residue. Shampoo became popular after people discovered it was much better for their hair versus the soap they had to use in previous years before shampoo was manufactured. Even "Handmade Soap, lye soap", is not the answer for everything or everyone.
 

riffwraith

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Hmmmm.... so, soapy stuff that you put in your hair to clean it, is not called shampoo?

This isn't shampoo?


There is definitely no oily residue, and I have been using black soap shampoo for over two decades, and the last thing I find it, is harsh.

Just looking for a way to thicken it, is all. No way to do that?

Thx
 

shunt2011

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Hmmmm.... so, soapy stuff that you put in your hair to clean it, is not called shampoo?

This isn't shampoo?


There is definitely no oily residue, and I have been using black soap shampoo for over two decades, and the last thing I find it, is harsh.

Just looking for a way to thicken it, is all. No way to do that?

Thx
Nope, that's not shampoo. It's soap with oils added. The PH is too high in soap for most peoples hair and will ruin it. And no, there's no way to thicken it as you're diluting soap. Some people use soap to wash their hair but that doesn't make it shampoo. It's still soap. Members here make their products from scratch, they don't just dilute already made soap.
 

DeeAnna

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"... Just looking for a way to thicken it, is all. No way to do that? ..."

To answer this question (and sidestepping the issue of soap-as-shampoo), the simplest solution is to use more soap in proportion to the water.

If you use less water and other liquids in proportion to the soap, you'll end up with a somewhat thicker mixture. That's the approach I'd use -- and the video's author mentions this too -- so have you given this a try?

The video author poured in water to cover the soap plus maybe 1/2 inch, and then she added oils and other liquids. The end result was a fairly watery product. I'd try adding just enough water to cover the bits of soap and see if that gives you the consistency you want after the soap dissolves.
 

Zany_in_CO

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Just looking for a way to thicken it, is all. No way to do that?
Yes there might be, but I make lye-based shampoo and I formulate for European hair. All I know about black hair is what I learned from Oprah when she did a whole show about black hair. LOL One thing that sticks in my mind is that stylists use lye to straighten black hair. That was quite an eye-opener for me, as was the whole show. Oh my, what you girls go through. I had no idea!

So, that being said, I'm currently testing a lye-based liquid soap thickener called Liquid CroThix from Bramble Berry. It is specifically designed for liquid soap and shampoo made from scratch which isn't the same as making a shampoo from soap. For one thing, from my experience, if the soap was made using lye it will suck up all the water over time and want to go back to being solid. Yes, I put my shampoo made from soap under the sink and forgot about it. A while later, while looking for something else, I found that soap-based shampoo in its bottle, solid as the day I bought it. :eek:

So before I would add CroThix to the mix described in the video, there are several things I would do to improve it. But we can save that for another discussion.

I have plenty of Liquid CroThix on hand if you would like a generous sample to try.
 

riffwraith

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I'm currently testing a lye-based liquid soap thickener called Liquid CroThix from Bramble Berry.
I will check that out - thanks!

So, I am researching castile soap, and considering trying that as a base. It seems as tho it is safe to use, as long as hair is not dyed (mine is not).

Anything I should be aware of here? Thanks!
 

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Did you mean a solid bar of Castile soap, or a liquid Castile soap? Both are "gentle" as far as soap goes. However, as others have noted, no matter what type of lye soap you use (bar or liquid), it can be very damaging to your hair.

I am one of the few who can use bar soap on my hair, and did so with great success for years - until I started coloring with henna and indigo. Unfortunately, soap strips all the color right out - which tells you something about how much it strips your hair, period. For whatever reason, that didn't bother my hair, which remained healthy, thick, long, and curly as long as I used it. But again, I'm the exception - most people don't have that experience, and they pay dearly in terms of hair breakage, loss, and even greying.
 
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atiz

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If you insist on doing this, I can second Zany's Chrotix recommendation. I have only used it to thicken syndet products, but it worked well, it is very easy to use, and I don't recall it being pH sensitive. Maybe some kind of gum would also work (Guar or Xanthan), but I have no experience with those and don't know their pH sensitivity.
 

riffwraith

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Did you mean a solid bar of Castile soap, or a liquid Castile soap?
Liquid - I was not aware that came in bars. So, Castile soap is lye based?

Maybe some kind of gum would also work (Guar or Xanthan),

Good idea - I tried Xanthan gum, but it didn't work out. It didn't thicken the shampoo, but instead I got hundreds of tiny lumps.
 

AliOop

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Liquid - I was not aware that came in bars. So, Castile soap is lye based?

Maybe some kind of gum would also work (Guar or Xanthan),

Good idea - I tried Xanthan gum, but it didn't work out. It didn't thicken the shampoo, but instead I got hundreds of tiny lumps.
Castile soap, by traditional definition, is 100% olive oil soap. It can be made as a liquid soap using KOH lye, or as a bar soap using NaOH lye.

All true soap is made with lye. If it didn't require lye to make it, it is a synthetic detergent, not a true soap. That's why Dove is labeled as a "beauty bar" and not a soap.

Some people and brands (Dr. Bronner's, for instance) use the term "Castile soap" very loosely to refer to any high-olive oil, or all vegan oil soap. Soapers call that "Bastille soap" --- you can probably figure out why if you know the vulgar English word for a child without a legal father.
 

riffwraith

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Thanks.

So, I just did some research on Lye, and according to what I see (which isn't a whole lot, TBH) it appears as tho it is bad for the hair follicles.

How do the rest of you feel about it?
 

shunt2011

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I don’t use lye based soap on my hair. Tried it and totally damaged it. Hair was shoulder length and had to cut it super short. Some can and do use it but many have issues. I also stated the same in my first and second post.
 

AliOop

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Technically there is no lye coming in contact with your hair, because all the lye has saponified with the oils to create soap. So if your research was truly about using lye on hair, you probably won't find much.

However, if you research washing your hair with soap made with lye, that should open up the wide and widely-debated world of "hair soap," sometimes erroneously called "shampoo bars." Give it a whirl, and we will see in you a few weeks after you emerge from that rabbit hole. 😄
 

riffwraith

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Ok, yes - a rabbit hole it is!

So, learn me something here.

This art:


Says that hair and scalp are generally acidic. It then says, "You’ll want your shampoo to be at a pH level similar to the level of your hair and scalp" - which tells me that you want shampoo to be acidic. The shampoo I currently use, as I just discovered a little while ago, is rather alkaline; it pulled a 9.0 on a test strip. So, is this bad for hair?
 

AliOop

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That's pretty high for a shampoo; in fact, that is a typical pH for bar soap. Shampoo is typically between 5 and 7 on the pH scale. Conventional wisdom says that higher anything than 7 is going to be damaging for most people's locks.

Again, I don't seem to fall into that category, and did fine for years with bar soap, following by a thorough soak and rinse with ACV. But I'm in the minority. Even my husband had to stop washing his hair with bar soap. His thick head of hair really thinned out and felt like straw. The good texture has returned since he started using shampoo again, but he's never regained the thickness, even two years later.

You may read some blogs where people claim to lower the pH of soap to something around 7. If I remember correctly, anything below 8 or so becomes a blobby mess - it is no longer soap.
 

riffwraith

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Thanks. :)

So, learn me something else, please. :)

The aforementioned shampoo I currently use has a decent viscosity to it - unlike the black soap/soapy water I made (post #1)

These are the ingredients:
Aqua, Potassium Cocoate (Coconut Oil), Potassium Olivate (Olive Oil), Potassium Castorate (Castor Oil), Potassium Almondate (Almond Oil), Potassium Wheat Germate (Wheat Germ Oil), Vegetable Glycerine, Sodium Borate, Melaleuca Alternfolia Oil (Tea Tree), Lavendula Angustifolia Oil (Lavender), Rosemarinus Officinalis Oil (Rosemary), Citrus Limonum Oil (Lemon), Cymbopogon Flexuosus Oil (Lemongrass), Urtica Dioica Leaf (Nettle),althaea Officinalis Root (Marshmallow), Rosemarinus Officinalis Leaf (Rosemary), Lavendula Angustifolia Leaf (Lavender), Geraniol, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Eugenol, Citronellol (Within The Essential Oils).

Is there any one specific thing that gives it the viscosity that it has? I am thinking it's one of the first five, or some combination.

Thanks again!
 

AliOop

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Sorry, you are beyond my pay grade now, as I have never made shampoo. Hopefully one of our chemistry people here can answer that for you!
 

Zany_in_CO

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Is there any one specific thing that gives it the viscosity that it has? I am thinking it's one of the first five, or some combination.
Aqua, Potassium Cocoate (Coconut Oil), Potassium Olivate (Olive Oil), Potassium Castorate (Castor Oil), Potassium Almondate (Almond Oil), Potassium Wheat Germate (Wheat Germ Oil), Vegetable Glycerine, Sodium Borate,
Ingredients in plain English: Water, coconut oil, olive oi, castor oil, almond oil, wheat germ oil , glycerine, Borax. NOTE: This is typical of the lye-based shampoos I make from the oils listed, all known to be beneficial to the hair. The shampoo gets it's viscosity from the correct balance of Water to Soap made from the oils & lye. Borax acts as a lye neutralizer and maybe chelator (not sure).

This impressive (to me) list of additives are antioxidants, herbs, essential oils and extracts known to be beneficial to hair. They are added for their various properties and for frangrance. Melaleuca Alternfolia Oil (Tea Tree), Lavendula Angustifolia Oil (Lavender), Rosemarinus Officinalis Oil (Rosemary), Citrus Limonum Oil (Lemon), Cymbopogon Flexuosus Oil (Lemongrass), Urtica Dioica Leaf (Nettle), althaea Officinalis Root (Marshmallow), Rosemarinus Officinalis Leaf (Rosemary), Lavendula Angustifolia Leaf (Lavender), Geraniol, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Eugenol, Citronellol (Within The Essential Oils).
 
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