made a gelled olive oil by mistake...

[Manchy]

few weeks ago i was making soap for a friend as her wedding favor. i had some old white, unscented olive oil soap, and thought to remelt it in the new olive oil. i did grate it, and put into oil, but as i started melting it i realized it won't be as smooth and beautiful as it usually is, so i just put that aside, took new oil, and started all over again.

well, now the mix of oil and grated soap looks like this: soap flakes in a gel like oil. does anyone know what has happened? i don't intend to use this thing, but i'm keeping it in a bowl, just for curiosity. any idea on what exactly am i having there??

 

[blueberrylolli]

sounds awesome o.o
pictures please? xD

 

[jadiebugs1]

i'm having trouble even forming a picture in my mind's eye of what you're saying/describing. Do you have pics? Do you mean you made CP 100% olive oil, with shreds of already made, grated olive oil in it??

 

[Manchy]

oh, now i wish i could take a pic, but not today :cry:

no, first i made cp 100% olive oil soap. than i wanted to make another soap using olive oil in it, and thought to melt down the old soap in it (kind of rebatch it), but than i saw it's not going to have a nice texture, so i just moved away the olive oil/olive oil soap to a side, and soaped with normal pure olive oil.

deep breath, and than few days after i looked at it and saw that it gelled (i'm talking about the mixture that i decided not to use in the end); olive oil is gel like, and speckles of the soap are dispersed in it.

oh, and it's not like this is something really important, i just found it odd

 

[Absinthe]

So you basically have melting or dissolving soap in olive oil. If there is active lye in the soap you are rebatching then it is saponifying the olive oil. However, if there is not active lye in the soap, then since by definition "soap" is an alkaline salt, it is trying to saponify the olive oil.

If you had an olive oil stain on your shirt and tried to wash it with soap what would happen? The same thing is happening in your pot. Together they are working towards neutrality. Whatever is alkaline in the soap is reacting with whatever is acidic in the oil and becoming soap, or at least breaking down the olive oil by combining with one or more of the fatty acids in it, releasing the glycerin and other fatty acids to mingle around with whatever unsaponifiables there are in the soup. If the acid level rises too much it will break down the soap making some other salt and releasing the other fatty acids and so forth. Everything is seeking neutral, equal stability.

You don't have to understand all the chemistry involved to soap, just like you don't have to understand the internal combustion engine to drive a car. However, it is interesting to read about, and if you get an understanding of the basics behind it, with a few chemo-physics principles it can be an interesting study.

http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa081301a.htm
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_edu/farber/
http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/soap/
http://www.cleaning101.com/cleaning/chemistry/
http://www.hschem.org/Laboratory/labs.htm

 

[cdwinsby]

So you basically have melting or dissolving soap in olive oil. If there is active lye in the soap you are rebatching then it is saponifying the olive oil. However, if there is not active lye in the soap, then since by definition "soap" is an alkaline salt, it is trying to saponify the olive oil.

If you had an olive oil stain on your shirt and tried to wash it with soap what would happen? The same thing is happening in your pot. Together they are working towards neutrality. Whatever is alkaline in the soap is reacting with whatever is acidic in the oil and becoming soap, or at least breaking down the olive oil by combining with one or more of the fatty acids in it, releasing the glycerin and other fatty acids to mingle around with whatever unsaponifiables there are in the soup. If the acid level rises too much it will break down the soap making some other salt and releasing the other fatty acids and so forth. Everything is seeking neutral, equal stability.

You don't have to understand all the chemistry involved to soap, just like you don't have to understand the internal combustion engine to drive a car. However, it is interesting to read about, and if you get an understanding of the basics behind it, with a few chemo-physics principles it can be an interesting study.

http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa081301a.htm
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_edu/farber/
http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/soap/
http://www.cleaning101.com/cleaning/chemistry/
http://www.hschem.org/Laboratory/labs.htm

Wow....great answer!!

 

[Absinthe]

Thanks!! I just made it up off the top of my head

Just kidding. I forgot to mention that if there was any water involved (rebatch soap was not 100% cured) there could also be some emulsification going on, since soap is an emulsifier to some degree too.

Soapers are different hobbyists than other things I have been involved in. Not all of them, but many, are more artists or chefs than technicians. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I don't mean it in any sort of negative way at all. That said, I am used to more anal, analytical engineering types that are so detail oriented and just absolutely have to know every minute detail of every aspect of what is going on to either fully enjoy or actually accomplish acceptable results in other hobbies that I get caught off guard when someone who can make beautiful and effective wonderful soaps either doesn't fully understand, appreciate or can't recite the history chapter and verse of the chemistry involved. I don't even presume to know even a small percentage of it, but I will share whatever I do know in hopes that I find someone else at least as annoying as I am in my interest of it to share back some of what they know and mix it with simple "this is what works because it works, though I can't explain why, and don't care either as long as it works" ... and eventually become a well rounded soaper

 

[jadiebugs1]

8) = Absinthe.....you rock gurl!

 

[MagiaDellaLuna]

8) = Absinthe.....you rock gurl!

Er, Absinthe........you rock, Guy.............. :wink:

 

[Absinthe]

gurl, guy, what's the diff...? it is all about the soap The kids these days call everyone dude, girls and guys alike, kind of doesn't matter, the soap doesn't care

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks!! I just made it up off the top of my head

Just kidding. I forgot to mention that if there was any water involved (rebatch soap was not 100% cured) there could also be some emulsification going on, since soap is an emulsifier to some degree too.

Soapers are different hobbyists than other things I have been involved in. Not all of them, but many, are more artists or chefs than technicians. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I don't mean it in any sort of negative way at all. That said, I am used to more anal, analytical engineering types that are so detail oriented and just absolutely have to know every minute detail of every aspect of what is going on to either fully enjoy or actually accomplish acceptable results in other hobbies that I get caught off guard when someone who can make beautiful and effective wonderful soaps either doesn't fully understand, appreciate or can't recite the history chapter and verse of the chemistry involved. I don't even presume to know even a small percentage of it, but I will share whatever I do know in hopes that I find someone else at least as annoying as I am in my interest of it to share back some of what they know and mix it with simple "this is what works because it works, though I can't explain why, and don't care either as long as it works" ... and eventually become a well rounded soaper

Ah, that explains a lot. :wink: Some people need to know the ins and outs of a duck's bum I suppose.

 

[Absinthe]

only if you want to be a duck proctologist