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Lye Masterbatching storage and water discount.

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dillsandwitch

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I have decided that master-batching from now on is going to be a must. It takes way too long to measure out oils and lye separately and wit for things to get to room temp when I'm doing small test batches with fragrances. I have done a heap of reading and I think I have the process fully understood. I just have a couple of questions that I couldn't find the answer to myself.

What sort of container do you store your lye water in? I was thinking something like this http://www.bunnings.com.au/venture-bmw-5l-blue-tint-water-jerry-can_p3240529.


Usually I just leave the water at 38% in soap calc but I have decided I want to try water discount. I read somewhere the other day that when cpop using a water discount can help with overheating issues so I wanted to try it. What is a good discount to use?

TIA
 

lionprincess00

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I use 40% lye concentration. If using an eo or fo that doesn't accelerate, and you gel/cpop, it cuts out ash like 95% and it helps with overheated soaps. I also have had take eons to trace, and my hummingbird ebru I did recently stayed fluid 50-55 minutes at this concentration, though for some reason many don't seen to believe it lol.

It's my go to lye amount on virtually everything. With an fo that accelerates, however, it'll clump and go thick as paste in no time...I haven't found the golden number there, but I'll be experimenting soon enough and will begin with, most likely, a 33% lye concentration.

Lye concentration is much more consistent than water as a percentage of oils (38% default in lye calc). Many threads on that especially by Irish lass and Deanna....late so can't affix a link at the moment, apologies.

Edit to specify, 40% lye concentration is the same as 1.5 water to 1 lye
So 15 oz water to 10 oz lye, for example.
 
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not_ally

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LP, I know that you and newbie really like the 40% lye concentration w/well behaved FO's, it seems scary but tempting to try given your experience. One question: what happens if your formula contains heaters, eg, milks, honey/sugar, etc?
 

dillsandwitch

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okay with using 'lye concentration" as a search it brings up a lot more results. I think because I use milk and ad sugar in most of my recipes/ that 40% may not be such a great idea to jump right into. I think for a start I will go with 33% as it seems like a common % that alot of people use.

Now I just gotta figure a container for my lye and i'm all set
 

dillsandwitch

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I have a container that my coconut oil came in. its code number 2 in the recycle code on the bottom and from my search that means its made from HDPE. Would this be safe to use as a storage container for the solution? I also looked on the container the lye comes in. It also has a 2 in the recycle code.
 

IrishLass

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Now I just gotta figure a container for my lye and i'm all set
Good containers to store lye solution in are as follows (in no particular order):

1) HDPE #2 (high density polyethylene)
2) PP #5 (polypropylene)
3) Nalgene
4) Stainless steel

All need to have tight closures/lids.

I myself store mine in a reclaimed liquid laundry detergent container with a spill-proof spout (made of HDPE #2). Stores wonderfully in it for very long-term (well over a year).

Whatever you do, don't use PETE #1 or PS #6. Neither can stand up to lye solutions.


IrishLass :)
 

dillsandwitch

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Awesome Thanks Heaps :D :D I will use the jug my oil came in then to store it in. I will mix it up in my stainless steel pot and once its cooled I'll transfer it to the jug. Sweet now I can get things ready for tomorrows soaping adventures. Happy dance time :D
 

lionprincess00

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I use every soap 1 TBS sugar ppo, predissolved in the water along side 2% ppo sodium citrate. Lye added. I've done coconut milk, heavy cream as well, with this concentration. The cream has posed no problem, but coconut milk seemed to thicken it a little quick. I poured my base at what felt like a medium trace on my latest Dragon ebru soap, and the little amounts with mica added into squirt bottles remained fluid enough to finish up the design (see the thread on the ebru challenge if unsure what I'm referring to).
It had a 1:1 water to lye, then the remaining .5 water amount (remember 40% concentration is 1.5 water to 1 lye) was 100% pure coconut milk.

It was super cold added at trace which also tends to thicken the batter (cooling off the batch), but once heat begins generating again it tends to loosen back up the batter.

Edit to add not ally, higher lye concentration is haarder to gel, it needs an extra heat source or it needs a very good insulation. By auntie Clara and her experiments, 40% lye slows the heat down and helps in NOT overheating...so its a safer thing to have a higher lye with sugars than a lower one...see dorymae I think it was, or another poster also sent the link of auntie Clara and her low water high water cpop experience (one had honey I think). There is a time and a place for high lye, I just find its mostly always for me and my recipes :)
 
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Seawolfe

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If one commonly used sugar and/or citric acid, would it make sense to add those to the masterbatch as well?
 

not_ally

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Liz, thanks so much for all the good advice. I did pore over that Aunt Clara post pretty carefully when it was posted, it was pretty interesting. I will go back and read it again. I am going to try this w/a little batch! It does seem as if there are a lot of advantages that come w/a high lye concentration if you can manage it.
 

jcandleattic

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I myself store mine in a reclaimed liquid laundry detergent container with a spill-proof spout (made of HDPE #2). Stores wonderfully in it for very long-term (well over a year).

IrishLass :)
This is exactly what I do.
I mix up a 50/50 lye:water ratio and then when it comes time to soap, I add the extra water needed for the soap I'm making at the time. I do different water discounts depending on the FO I'm using, so having the 50/50 really helps with this.
 

cmzaha

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This is exactly what I do.
I mix up a 50/50 lye:water ratio and then when it comes time to soap, I add the extra water needed for the soap I'm making at the time. I do different water discounts depending on the FO I'm using, so having the 50/50 really helps with this.
This is also what I do and store in a dish soap bottle HDPE #2 with a child proof top. I also use them for at least a year. Forgot to mention I store my masterbatch containers in 5 gallon buckets just in case they leak. Also gives added security when my grand kidlets are here, since they cannot get the lid off the 5 gallon buckets
 
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FlybyStardancer

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If one commonly used sugar and/or citric acid, would it make sense to add those to the masterbatch as well?
Theoretically you could...but it makes it trickier to measure out how much you need because you need to account for the sugar and citric acid in the masterbatch you weigh out.
 

dillsandwitch

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I made 10x 500 gm batches to test some of the new fragrances I got. It all went really well. I used 33% lye concentration and apart from 3 of the batches I had plenty of time to do my swirls and get it molded. Of the 3 that accelerated I'm pinning that down to the FO. I used GM in all and again I only had 2 that looked like they were going to overheat so in the fridge they went. 2 started to partial gel so they got CPOPed and the rest just got sat on the table and left to do their thing.

Master-batching is so much more convenient. I dont m=know why I didn't do this sooner. Fear of the unknown most likely. Only think I will do differently with the oils next time is add maybe 10% extra oils than calculated to account for spoon drippage and whatnot. My last batch was a few grams short of oils.

One other question I do have with master-batching the oils is the tallow I use is stored in the fridge. I get it from the shop like that. If I master-batched the oils and stored it the tallow would go bad if left unrefrigerated wouldnt it?
 

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