Liquid Soap HPCP not cooking 75%coconut 25%safflower

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DextrousM

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I'm having trouble with my liquid soap. This is my second batch. The first batch came out great, but this batch is taking forever to cook. It's been pretty nearly 8 hours of cooking (low) after a misstep with accidentally turning off the cp and leaving it to sit over night to recook in the morning. I was wondering if maybe the safflower oil is just not suitable for liquid soap? The clarity test still produces milky liquid and it's like a stiff mashed potatoes right now..

recipe:
500g oil
75% coconut 375g
25% safflower 125g
133-134g KOH 90% - 0% superfat
390g distilled H2O
 
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Susie

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DextrousM

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I have never used safflower. However, if you have mashed potato texture after all of that, stop cooking. It is as cooked as it is ever going to get.

BTW, CP means cold process, not crock pot.

Looking at your signature, if you are interested in an easier way to make liquid soap, try cold process. Here's my tutorial:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852&highlight=cold+process+liquid+soap
Hey, thanks for the quick reply! So the last time I made liquid soap, it passed the clarity test in about 5 hours and had the consistency of goopy superball chunks. I guess each recipe is going to be more different than I thought (that one was coconut-olive-castor).

So I just said the heck with it and added my distilled water and it is right now dissolving to clear soap. But I think I realized my error. I was using filtered water that I think has a bit of chlorine in it for the clarity test /BONK!

Thanks for the advice on "cold process" soap. I do make those as well, but I'm branching out to make laundry soap that I don't have to grate bars and other silly stuff. That and we buy organic hand soap that is wacky expensive and we'll be able to forgo that very soon, hopefully... :)

Thanks again for your quick reply. It is very much appreciated!!!
~M
 

Susie

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Yes, my CP soap tutorial is for LIQUID SOAP, I think that recipe is for laundry soap, specifically. I now use 100% CO laundry soap, but that recipe works also. I also use Soapee.com for a lye calculator these days. I will post my laundry soap recipe on Soapee.com if it helps.

I see no need to make work less efficient and more manual, either.

ETA: Must go to work soon, here is recipe: http://soapee.com/recipes/1122
 
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DeeAnna

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Have you tried a zap test of the paste? Put a tiny film of the paste on your fingertip and touch fingertip lightly to tongue. A zap is an immediate static shock sensation, and that means there is free alkali still in the paste. A bitter, metallic, salty, or sour taste that takes a bit of time to develop is not a zap.

If you have a cloudy dilution AND a positive zap, that most likely means there is fat that still isn't fully saponified and free alkali available to do the saponification.

A NO zap result means the saponification is basically done, regardless of whether the diluted soap is cloudy or not cloudy. In that case, cloudiness can mean any of several things -- excess fat that has not been saponified, and/or use of fats higher in stearic and palmitic acids, and/or presence of unsaponifiable matter, and/or diluting with water containing hard-water minerals. I know you most likely used distilled water to dilute per your original post, but that still leaves the other possibilities and maybe others I'm not thinking of.

I'm with Susie -- stop cooking. After an overnight sit and another 4 hours of cooking, I'd be really surprised if there is any free alkali left, so the soap is as done as its going to get.
 

DextrousM

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Have you tried a zap test of the paste? Put a tiny film of the paste on your fingertip and touch fingertip lightly to tongue. A zap is an immediate static shock sensation, and that means there is free alkali still in the paste. A bitter, metallic, salty, or sour taste that takes a bit of time to develop is not a zap.

If you have a cloudy dilution AND a positive zap, that most likely means there is fat that still isn't fully saponified and free alkali available to do the saponification.

A NO zap result means the saponification is basically done, regardless of whether the diluted soap is cloudy or not cloudy. In that case, cloudiness can mean any of several things -- excess fat that has not been saponified, and/or use of fats higher in stearic and palmitic acids, and/or presence of unsaponifiable matter, and/or diluting with water containing hard-water minerals. I know you most likely used distilled water to dilute per your original post, but that still leaves the other possibilities and maybe others I'm not thinking of.

I'm with Susie -- stop cooking. After an overnight sit and another 4 hours of cooking, I'd be really surprised if there is any free alkali left, so the soap is as done as its going to get.
Thanks for the response!

I did test the paste with pH strips and it was between 8 and 9, so I believe it is good on that front.

Safflower oil is high in linoleic acid which I believe is unusual for the oils in the craft...
Yes, my CP soap tutorial is for LIQUID SOAP, I think that recipe is for laundry soap, specifically. I now use 100% CO laundry soap, but that recipe works also. I also use Soapee.com for a lye calculator these days. I will post my laundry soap recipe on Soapee.com if it helps.

I see no need to make work less efficient and more manual, either.

ETA: Must go to work soon, here is recipe: http://soapee.com/recipes/1122
My apologies, I assumed bar soap. Thanks! I'll check it out...
 
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shunt2011

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Thanks for the response!

I did test the paste with pH strips and it was between 8 and 9, so I believe it is good on that front.

Safflower oil is high in linoleic acid which I believe is unusual for the oils in the craft...
PH strips are not accurate at testing the PH of soap. You really need to do the zap test for the best way to tell you if the soap is safe. Plus it's cheaper and the most effective. No zap is good. Zap is bad - means theirs free lye.

PH strips will not tell you if there is active lye.
 

DeeAnna

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I wouldn't expect safflower to cause cloudiness -- it should saponify just fine. Also -- safflower can come in linoleic, mid oleic, and high oleic versions, just like sunflower. Do you know which you've got? The HO versions are more like olive oil and are fairly stable. The linoleic versions tend to go rancid faster, so are best used in small to moderate amounts in soap.
 

DextrousM

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I wouldn't expect safflower to cause cloudiness -- it should saponify just fine. Also -- safflower can come in linoleic, mid oleic, and high oleic versions, just like sunflower. Do you know which you've got? The HO versions are more like olive oil and are fairly stable. The linoleic versions tend to go rancid faster, so are best used in small to moderate amounts in soap.
Hi There - The cloudiness was from the filtered water I was using that I am sure is treated with chlorine. I posted this in a reply above, but I think it was buried. We are stationed in a country that the tap water is no good to drink and for some reason I went to our water cooler for a clarity test. haha doh! Thanks for the reminder on the rancidity. I'm just toying with extra bubbles and making laundry soap. I have this thing where if I can't see even the tiniest of bubbles in my HE washer, I feel that my clothes are not being cleaned...
 

DeeAnna

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Your best bet for soap making is distilled or deionized or demineralized water. Rain water or snow melt can also serve if you prefer, especially if filtered to remove any particulates. The issue with clouding from drinking water is less about the chlorine and more about the calcium and magnesium content of the water.
 

Susie

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I understand the issue about bubbles in the washer. However, 100% CO soap makes PLENTY of bubbles on it's own. No need for sugar or castor oil. The bubbles just don't last long, so look fast.

If you add sugar, you get too many bubbles for an HE washer. It is fine in my current old (non-HE) washer, but my sister-in-law can't have added sugar with her HE washer. Her utility room looked like a bubble factory gone wrong when she tried it.

DeeAnna-If the OP has that many minerals in the tap water, would they also not benefit from a chelator of some sort?
 
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DeeAnna

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Good point, Susie. Yes, a chelator will certainly help, although when you dissolve a little bit of soap in a lot of water, like in the sink or washing machine, the chelator in the soap can't deal with the entire amount of hard-water minerals in that amount of water. So it's good to also have a home water softener or use an additive such as washing soda to help soften water. Treating the water by softening as well as by chelation will help the bubbles survive.
 

Susie

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I have never had hard water in my life, so I was trying to recall info that I do not need on a regular basis. Thank you for answering that!
 

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