Is this a Good conditioning bar recipe ?
- Thread starter Micki B
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That much beeswax is going to make for a very difficult soap making session. You will have to soap pretty hot to keep it melted, and your batter will get thick very quickly. Typical beeswax usage rate is around 1-2% for added hardness (or label appeal). For those reasons, I'd move 5% of your beeswax over to babassu, which will make this recipe easier to create, and will also increase the soap's lather. A decelerating fragrance might help you, as well.
Regarding your water, I recommend changing from "water as percent of oils" to "lye concentration," and try setting it anywhere from 30% to 33% to start. This will give you more consistent results from batch to batch, especially as you size up and down. The "water as percent of oils" setting was originally created for HP, not for CP. But even for HP, your calculations are much more straight forward when using lye percentage instead.
As for the rest of the ingredients, this would be a luxury bar of soap based on the expense of the oils used. Whether you like how this soap actually performs is another question. You noted in your introduction that these were the oils you wanted to use, so I'll stop there. You are smart to make a very small batch and to give it a good cure to see what you think. Keep us posted!
Regarding your water, I recommend changing from "water as percent of oils" to "lye concentration," and try setting it anywhere from 30% to 33% to start. This will give you more consistent results from batch to batch, especially as you size up and down. The "water as percent of oils" setting was originally created for HP, not for CP. But even for HP, your calculations are much more straight forward when using lye percentage instead.
As for the rest of the ingredients, this would be a luxury bar of soap based on the expense of the oils used. Whether you like how this soap actually performs is another question. You noted in your introduction that these were the oils you wanted to use, so I'll stop there. You are smart to make a very small batch and to give it a good cure to see what you think. Keep us posted!
Cat&Oak
Well-Known Member
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
To answer your question, it is conditioning, but it would make a better lotion bar than soap. It is best to make a few tried & true recipes to gain some understanding before attempting to create your personal favorite -- which may take a few years if you're like me. 
Secret to Designing the Best Soap Recipe.
Advice to Beginners
Secret to Designing the Best Soap Recipe.
Advice to Beginners
Micki B
Member
Thank You! I dropped the beeswax down (I only added it to help harden the bar) and added it to the Babassu I also changed to the lye concentration at 33%. It jiggled my numbers a little and dropped my total weight down so I cut the superfat from 7 to 5 to get my total weight back up. I am trying for a creamy lather rather than a fluffy lather. I also chose the oils I did because I am not fond of the way coconut and olive oil feel on my skin. I can not find a base recipe that does not contain one or the other. I am open to other oils to try if you have any to suggest. Thank you for taking the time to help me!
Micki B
Member
Thanks for the link! very good information! And most tried and true recipes all have olive oil or coconut oil which I am trying very hard to stay away from they irritate my skin and make it itch. And lotion bars sound interesting might have to explore those!To answer your question, it is conditioning, but it would make a better lotion bar than soap. It is best to make a few tried & true recipes to gain some understanding before attempting to create your personal favorite -- which may take a few years if you're like me.
Secret to Designing the Best Soap Recipe.
Advice to Beginners
Do you have any objection to using lard, tallow, or palm? Lard in particular makes more of a creamy lather, and it is very gentle on the skin. You could try something like this:
75% lard
20% babassu
5% castor oil
That's very similar to my personal favorite soap, although I use CO or PKO instead of babassu. After an 8-week cure, this bar will produce a tight, creamy lather and will be very gentle on the skin. You can increase the bubbles by using aloe vera juice as a full water replacement, or by adding 1 T sugar PPO (dissolved in the lye water first).
Some people prefer to use some soft oils to cut back on the lard. Just replace 20% of the lard with rice bran oil, HO sunflower, HO safflower, or avocado oil.
75% lard
20% babassu
5% castor oil
That's very similar to my personal favorite soap, although I use CO or PKO instead of babassu. After an 8-week cure, this bar will produce a tight, creamy lather and will be very gentle on the skin. You can increase the bubbles by using aloe vera juice as a full water replacement, or by adding 1 T sugar PPO (dissolved in the lye water first).
Some people prefer to use some soft oils to cut back on the lard. Just replace 20% of the lard with rice bran oil, HO sunflower, HO safflower, or avocado oil.
I like the combination of Avocado plus HO Safflower or HO Sunflower oils for a nice feel. But if you don't like the feel of OO, you may not like the feel of the high oleic versions of Safflower or Sunflower oils. My skin is not a fan of high CO content soaps, either, but if I keep it low or mix PKO (Palm Kernel Oil) with CO (I learned this from @cmzaha), still at low percentages, I don't get the dryness that plain CO in higher percentages gives me.
I reserve my babassu oil for deodorant, rather than using it in soap, so cannot comment on its use in soap.
Anyway, the Avocado oil really does seem to produce a very nice feel in soap. Just a bit on the luxurious side, if you can accept that rather vague description.
Trinbago27
Well-Known Member
I did not realize aloe Vera juice increases bubbles! I did not use it as I thought the lye “ate” it all up…
can I still use citric acid and sodium lactate with the aloe Vera juice?
Yes, I do that frequently myself.
Good tip on mixing the PKO and CO. I do that as well and really like it.
Micki B
Member
I am currently using a lard and PKO and canola soap that is Amish made. I like it but I get a little weird over the fact that I am bathing with something I cook with! lol I do have PKO and avocado butter not oil. I also have shea, mango and aloe butters and the RBO and babassu. Trying to find the right mix is the challenge. I'm basically looking for mild cleansing, creamy lather and high conditioning. With so many combos to choose from I thought I'd throw it out there for suggestions.
I appreciate everyones input!
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Shea and mango are real butters that do well at high % in NaOH soaps. This one turned out to be one of my favorite soaps. LUV it!
67% Shea Butter CP - INS 155
I'm guessing the avocado and aloe butters are made with hydrogenated soy oil or castor oil. Check your ingredients. Save those, along with the babassu oil, for leave-on products like DIY deodorant, balms, salves, lotion bars etc.
You have a good idea of the oils to use to produce that result. When I first started, I played around on SoapCalc.net for hours. I used the Default Settings. I stayed within the recommendations for "Soap Qualities", I chose a somewhat balanced SAT/UNSAT ratio, and aimed at an INS Value of 160 for a so-called "perfect" soap.
Then I made lots of soap -- more than once -- tweaking every batch as I learned about what I liked and didn't like about each batch and where I wanted to improve.
You can do it! It just takes a little time and a lotta patience.
If you shy away from cooking oils, it's not going to leave you much to make soap with.
Palm oil is in shortening. RBO is used for frying (you may not use it, but many do.) And so forth and so on.
Depending on where you got your Avocado butter, it may be a blend of other oils. See WPS avocado butter ingredients: Crafter
Palm oil is in shortening. RBO is used for frying (you may not use it, but many do.) And so forth and so on.
Depending on where you got your Avocado butter, it may be a blend of other oils. See WPS avocado butter ingredients: Crafter
Micki B
Member
When I think of lard I think of rendered animal fat. The avocado butter I have is from avocado oil and vegetable oil pretty much like you can get at any wholesaler. The other oils are ok and I've used them before.If you shy away from cooking oils, it's not going to leave you much to make soap with.
Palm oil is in shortening. RBO is used for frying (you may not use it, but many do.) And so forth and so on.
Depending on where you got your Avocado butter, it may be a blend of other oils. See WPS avocado butter ingredients: Crafter
"When I think of lard I think of rendered animal fat. " Well, ya that's what it is.
But look at it from the fat profile aspect. Which is what you are using.
It just happens to come from an animal. You know what they say.... Once you go lard....
But look at it from the fat profile aspect. Which is what you are using.It just happens to come from an animal. You know what they say.... Once you go lard....
Peachy Clean Soap
Well-Known Member
You never go back’ I eat very little pork if at all. But I use lard in most of my soap recipe‘s"When I think of lard I think of rendered animal fat. " Well, ya that's what it is.
It just happens to come from an animal. You know what they say.... Once you go lard....
