Is soap bad for you?

[atiz]

So, I probably won't be popular with this post, but maybe I can preface it with saying that I do love making soap, and do make it and use it regularly.
But recently as I was doing other things, came across a few studies (here, here, and here) according to which soap is really not recommended for regular use --- and I wanted to ask what people here think about that.

Here is the reason. Soap has at least two characteristic effects on the skin: one due to its cleansing property, the other due to its high pH when dissolved. Now, it is very possible to make a gentle bar that's not very stripping, that won't strip away too much oil from your skin; and this is usually what is meant by formulating a good bar of soap. But the concern of these studies is not the stripping nature of the soap but its high pH, which, in contrast with the former, is not something we can adjust too much (there is no such thing as a low-pH soap). In short, the problem seems to be that no matter what kind of high pH cleanser we use, including soap, the high pH will result in eliminating what they call the skin's acid mantle, which in turn affects some bacteria living in there that should rather not be disturbed. (Okay, this was a very vague summary...). It's not a permanent damage, so if you use soap only once a day or so that's fine --- but more often than that it will lead to problems.

So, what are people's experiences with this? Should soap come with a warning label like "for once a day use only"? Do you all use syndet for washing hands, which people probably do more than once a day?

 

[lsg]

I have been using soap for over 50 years and have had no major skin problems. However, without the use of soap, I feel that some of the material and bacteria that my skin has been exposed to on our farm might have caused problems. I don't think one can wash away grease or manure using clear water. I wash my hands with soap and water everytime I come in from outside. Even if I am not in the barnyard, our dogs and cats think that they all need to be petted. Trends come and go. In five years, who knows what the trends will be.

eta: When I sold soap, my label always include the warning, "If itching or irritation occurs, cease the use of the product."

 

[dixiedragon]

Unless I'm particularly sweaty, I only soap up my feet and underarms. I think the rest of me gets clean enough with water.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I've been using it now for a good few years and not had issues. No matter what I use on my hands, other than plain water, they start to get a bit tight towards the end of the day

 

[atiz]

Glad to hear that, @lsg. Yes, I guess the real choice is not between soap and plain water (plain water does not always get you clean enough), but between soap and syndet.
To be honest I mostly just skimmed the above referenced papers. As far as I understood, their conclusion was that with the skin's acidic mantle gone, it will be more prone to acne and other related things, even if one does not quite feel it (like one would feel the tightness, etc.). But it's good to hear that people don't tend to experience this.

The context of this "research" on my part was that I started to make some syndet products recently and I could immediately tell they felt very different from any handmade soap I ever tried (not just self-made). So I wanted to know what the real difference was. But I assume this also depends on your skin type somewhat.

 

[lenarenee]

Healthy skin restores the pH in a few hours.

Plain water can also affect the mantle's pH, btw.

It takes a lot more than a few washings with soap to eliminate the body's mantle - maintaining it is a constant process of the integumentary system. That's about all I know - so can't offer any other details.

However, I have wondered myself about hand-washing because I wash my hands up to 2 dozen times a day. However, other than needing lotion a few times a day (3-4, more....depending). I've haven't experienced anything to makes me think the skin on my hands isn't functioning the way it should. In fact, for me syndets are often irritating - which would interfere with the health of my skin.

I could assume that if soap was harmful - dermatologists would have warned us. (those who aren't trying to sell products)

Oh, - and all of those expensive skin care lines who sell stuff to restore the skin's pH? Totally unnecessary and either doesn't work at all - or only works on the most superficial level. The outside of the skin is dead, and the mantle is obviously can't be maintained by dead cells! The skin (the entire body) is constantly in a state of maintaining equilibrium). That little cotton ball of product can't do much to affect it.

 

[lsg]

I guess it would depend on the surfactant that is used in the syndet bar. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate produces lots of bubbles, has a pH of 6-8; but is known as one of the harsher surfactants.

http://chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/perchem/SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE.htm

 

[atiz]

Healthy skin restores the pH in a few hours.

Plain water can also affect the mantle's pH, btw.

It takes a lot more than a few washings with soap to eliminate the body's mantle - maintaining it is a constant process of the integumentary system. That's about all I know - so can't offer any other details.

However, I have wondered myself about hand-washing because I wash my hands up to 2 dozen times a day. However, other than needing lotion a few times a day (3-4, more....depending). I've haven't experienced anything to makes me think the skin on my hands isn't functioning the way it should. In fact, for me syndets are often irritating - which would interfere with the health of my skin.

I could assume that if soap was harmful - dermatologists would have warned us. (those who aren't trying to sell products)

Oh, - and all of those expensive skin care lines who sell stuff to restore the skin's pH? Totally unnecessary and either doesn't work at all - or only works on the most superficial level. The outside of the skin is dead, and the mantle is obviously can't be maintained by dead cells! The skin (the entire body) is constantly in a state of maintaining equilibrium). That little cotton ball of product can't do much to affect it.

Thanks, yes, this makes sense. I think they said the skin needs 6-8 hrs to restore, so it's not really about showering with soap once a day but really about handwashing that we do much more often. Maybe since our hands tend to be less sensitive than other parts they do not get affected very much.
Again, I only skimmed those papers but got the impression that this is quite a new line of research -- for that reason might also be a complete dead end, maybe we'll know in a few decades...

As far as syndets go, of course not all of them are good (just as there are better and worse soaps as well). The ones I made did not contain SLS and are very gentle with ~5.5--6 pH.

 

[penelopejane]

Is soap bad for you?
It might be if you eat it.

 

[earlene]

I am a retired nurse, and there are several nurses and even a doctor here on SMF, who undoubtedly washed/wash our hands so many times per day, we have probably lost count.

From my own personal experience: All this handwashing with soap has not damaged my hands. The only negative experience with frequent handwashing I ever had was when my hospital first switched to liquid soap in the 1980's and my skin hated the soap the hospital was using. It caused my skin to dry out a lot, so I concluded it was that particular brand. When I switched brands again, the skin on my hands improved.

Another thing to be aware of is that surface skin of the hands in a young person (I am now old, so there have been some changes) is fairly tough compared to certain other parts of the body. So it can withstand more wear & tear, which is good when one works a job that requires frequent or vigorous hand washing.

I am not sure about the links you provided, if they went into any detail about why we wash our hands and how important it is in many professions that handwashing be carried out to prevent cross-contamination of food, feces, disease prevention, etc. But that is extremely important and if people were to stop washing their hands more than once per day, the spread of disease would become a serious problem for all concerned.

So, regardless what the studies say (and I was unable to actually access any details in 2 of those links, BTW) my experience at almost age 70 is, that frequent handwashing with good soap does not damage my hands.

Edit: I don't use syndet bars for handwashing and may have never done except when that's what was provided in the workplace. I am not sure what the content of the LS was at the hospital, but I find real soap to be much more comfortable on my skin than the ones containing detergents.

 

[Ollie]

Is soap bad for you?
It might be if you eat it.

The owner of the health food store where I sell my 100% all natural organic goat milk soap told me a customer objected to a soap I had put wheat germ in because all wheat is GMO. My first thought was she eats tbe soap!!

 

[earlene]

The owner of the health food store where I sell my 100% all natural organic goat milk soap told me a customer objected to a soap I had put wheat germ in because all wheat is GMO. My first thought was she eats tbe soap!!

What country are you in, Ollie? In the US, there are no commercially grown GM wheat crops grown at this time as far as I can find.


Not according to this: https://gmoanswers.com/current-gmo-crops

Or this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetically_modified_crops

Although some unapproved GM wheat has been found growing in Washington state in the US, and apparently also in Montana, but none were approved for commercial purposes. I suspect nature played a part in the spread of the wheat from test fields, which of course does play havoc with the crops all over the world when we plant GM crops out in the open, even if only for testing purposes.


I find it interesting that we started growing GM apples in the US recently and that has me worried, but I don't know how it will effect all the varieties of apples over time.