how to put lard on labels

[oh2bejoy]

Hi Everyone--someone whose shop and business sense I admire on another forum puts this on her label:

Ingredients: Raw goat milk; Saponified natural fats, coconut oil, olive oil, soybean oil; Fragrance; Natural color.

I am assuming that the "natural fats" refer to lard or tallow and I like the way she phrased it because here in Los Angeles a lot of people (well, my friends, anyway!) see the words "lard" or "tallow" and go "yuck" and move on. I love lard in my soaps because of the creaminess. What do you think? Is this legal/ethical? I don't want to get in trouble when at the holiday fairs this month and next....

Thanks in advance....

Joy

 

[TessC]

Just from the ethical side of it, I definitely wouldn't skate around listing exactly which oils are in your soap. People may need or want to avoid certain oils, be it for health, ethical, or religious reasons and your labels should make it easy for them to see exactly what's in your soap. I personally love lard in soaps, I think it adds a really nice something to the lather and I have no qualms about using it. The next person may be vegan or Muslim, and "sneaking" a lard soap in on them just isn't cool at all.

There are also allergies to take into consideration, listing "saponified natural fats" doesn't allow a person to check for things that they're allergic to, which gives me the heebie jeebies personally. I'd hate for someone to have an allergic reaction to my soap if it could easily be avoided by a full ingredient list on the label, y'know?


Legally, I'm no lawyer but no, you can't play fast and loose with your labels. It's my understanding that the FDA does not require you to label your soap as long as it's just soap, but if you opt to do any label at all then you're obligated to label fully and properly, if that makes any sense. (It's early, not nearly enough caffeine yet to be articulate.)

 

[dagmar88]

The inci of lard = Lard, and it should be put on your label just like that.
Not having lard on your inci when the soap does contain lards is in my opinion both unethical and illegal.
For example, someone could be allergic, have religious concerns or lifestyles that do not include the use of pig/animal fats

There's plenty of people who do not get their ingrediënt lists right and I wouldn't take this one as an example. :?

The way she lists them now would mean she buys pre-saponified 'natural fats' (that term doesn't say anything, but lets assume it's animal fat, then it should be listed as tallow, lard, emu oil etc in particular), throws in coconut oil, soybean oil olive oil and goatsmilk and some fragrance/colorants.


This is how I'd list it, of course I do not know the order of her ingredients or the exact 'natural' colorant, so I picked calendula petals as an example:

Goat Milk, Cocos Nucifera Oil, Olea Europaea, Sodium Hydroxide, Glycine soja Oil, Calendula Officinalis Flower

 

[agriffin]

I agree with both above. I think it's wrong and would not purchase soap from them even though I love lard soap.

 

[velitasyjaboncitos]

half percent of the time I use lard, it is awesome. I was thinking about this this same week as soon as I sell them, how can I put it in the label...

A lot of people/ existing customers love your products, and they'll trust you with your products.

I have no problems labeling my soaps with lard.

 

[carebear]

I don't play the "mystery ingredients" game.

But I suspect that more so than labeling that way to avoid saying lard (aka pork tallow LOL), using a generic term like "natural fats" and "natural color" means she doesn't have to change her label or her web site text for various recipes.

But really, the whole thing is tacky. That ingredient list is so useless it's laughable.


"natural fats" means nothing. as opposed to what? UNnatural fats?
"saponified" makes me twitch. not all the oils are saponified, as she well knows.
"natural color"??? Kitten Love does that mean?

 

[agriffin]

"natural color"??? Kitten Love does that mean?"

When I want a "natural" chocolate brown...natural dog poop works perfectly.

 

[Sunny]

Hi Everyone--someone whose shop and business sense I admire on another forum puts this on her label:

Ingredients: Raw goat milk; Saponified natural fats, coconut oil, olive oil, soybean oil; Fragrance; Natural color.

I am assuming that the "natural fats" refer to lard or tallow and I like the way she phrased it because here in Los Angeles a lot of people (well, my friends, anyway!) see the words "lard" or "tallow" and go "yuck" and move on. I love lard in my soaps because of the creaminess. What do you think? Is this legal/ethical? I don't want to get in trouble when at the holiday fairs this month and next....

Thanks in advance....

Joy

It's too tricky for me. If I saw those ingredients listed on a label, I wouldn't buy anyway, who knows what else the seller is putting in there that I don't know about (natural color?). Why would you want to trick your buyers into getting something they don't want. Like you mentioned above, selling to customers who wouldn't normally buy lard soap, so you trick them into buying it instead.

This is not a personal insult to you or your friend, just thinking out loud kinda.

 

[tespring]

"natural fats" means nothing. as opposed to what? UNnatural fats?
"saponified" makes me twitch. not all the oils are saponified, as she well knows.
"natural color"??? Kitten Love does that mean?

We have discovered the cause of unnatural fats right here in this forum. It is from washing too much with soaps that have fats and this is the cause of the "soapers flab"!

The way I see it, is if they can claim tennis elbow from swinging a racket, I can claim "soapers flab" from trying out the soaps that I make daily.




Yes, I agree, Lard should be on the label.

 

[orangeblossom]

I also want to respectfully agree.

I am a vegetarian, and a Muslim and I avoid animal fat soap, especially lard. There is a market for people who do not want animal fats, and a market for those who do. There are plenty of people, many whom I know, who prefer to use locally made ingredients (including the rendered fats), or old fashioned ingredients, and who love lard and tallow soaps. I live near a lot of Amish people, and they all make their soap with animal fats, and the sell like hotcakes.

I would never buy soap (or anything really) that I did not know the ingredients too.

I understand your concern, (wanting to sell soap) but I mentioned what I said earlier to let you know that there are plenty of folks who would want a lard soap (or at least, not mind it), but also many who don't.

 

[kaelily]

"natural fats" seems more gross than seeing "lard" on a label...to me, anyway.

Speaking of labeling, I heard that a gift shop owner in town also makes soap. I had the impression it was MP but when I went there to check it out, it was CP. She didn't have an ingredient list on any of her soaps...and it did give me the heebie jeebies a little, lol. The soaps looked nice, but still...I wouldn't buy any if I didn't know what was in it.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto all the points that everyone else have mentioned.

I love lard in soap and use it frequently. I list it as 'Lard' on the back of my label in my ingredients list, and I also proudly advertise 'Lard' right on the front of my label so people know exactly what they are getting.

I believe 1) that soapers need to know the reason why they use what they do in their soap, 2) that they need label 100% honestly, and 3) that they need be able to confidently explain their ingredients to their customers. If a soaper loves to use lard in soap for the special qualities it brings to their bar, then she/he should proudly label it as such and be able to confidently explain to others why they make soap with it.

Sneaking around and hiding ingredients is never a good thing. It'll bite you in the end.

If your friend is so concerned about losing veggie customers by labeling 'Lard', why doesn't she just formulate and also offer a non-lard soap? That's what I do (and I'm sure many other lard soapers do, too).

IrishLass

 

[carebear]

Keep in mind the use of "natural fats" or whatever is not necessarily a euphemism for Lard. that was just supposition on the part of the OP.

I still believe it's listed that way for convenience - so that the wording on the site or labels doesn't have to be updated or changed. Wrong, but not necessarily with intent to deceive.

 

[oh2bejoy]

THANK YOU, ALL!!!

I am grateful for all the responses. I also list EVERYTHING on my labels for the same reasons so many of you have listed: allergies, religious reasons, and just plain aversion to animal by-products. However, I do find that the word "lard" is a turn-off for a lot of my friends and I was trying to see if I could get around it. But, as I've seen, honesty is the best policy and so I will continue to list lard in plain language on my ingredient lists.

My web person suggested I list my ingredients this way:

Ingredients: Goat's Milk. Distilled water. Saponified oils of Olive, Lard, Coconut, Sweet Almond, Castor, Apricot Kernal, and Babassu. Shea Butter. Scented with Fragrance Oils and Lavender Buds.

I add about 8% shea butter so it come before the castor oil, but I don't include it in the oils because its a butter. Is that okay? and what do you think about the term "saponified oils of..."?

In the past, I have listed it this way:

Ingredients: Goat's Milk. Distilled water. Olive oil, Lard, Coconut oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Sweet Almond oil, Shea Butter, Castor oil, Apricot Kernal oil, and Babassu oil. Dragon's Blood fragrance (or whatever fragrance or essential oil I have used), and Lavender buds (or whatever botanicals like chamomile, etc).

Which would you recommend?

Thanks for all of your help!!!

Joy

 

[rubyslippers]

Am I missing something here or am I looking at the wrong INCI tables???? I've seen lard noted as sodium lardate.

 

[agriffin]

Am I missing something here or am I looking at the wrong INCI tables???? I've seen lard noted as sodium lardate.

That is saponified lard.

INCI for lard is lard.

 

[rubyslippers]

[That is saponified lard.

INCI for lard is lard.

Gotcha...thanks!

 

[agriffin]

Your label should look something like this.

Goat Milk, Water, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Lard, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Orbignya Oleifera (Babassu) Seed Oil, Fragrance and Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower

You need Sodium Hydroxide in there also...in order of use. So if you have more of that than they Babassu...it needs to go there. I just took from your sample but everything should be listed in order of use.

In my opinion...no it is not okay to say "saponified oils of"...

Does your soap have a superfat? If so, how do you know what oils were completely saponified and which were not.

If you list the saponified name of the oil such as Sodium Cocoate...you are saying that there is no free coconut oil in your soap. If you superfat...then this is a non truth.

 

[BakingNana]

Your label should look something like this.

Goat Milk, Water, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Lard, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Orbignya Oleifera (Babassu) Seed Oil, Fragrance and Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower

You need Sodium Hydroxide in there also...in order of use. So if you have more of that than they Babassu...it needs to go there. I just took from your sample but everything should be listed in order of use.

In my opinion...no it is not okay to say "saponified oils of"...

Does your soap have a superfat? If so, how do you know what oils were completely saponified and which were not.

If you list the saponified name of the oil such as Sodium Cocoate...you are saying that there is no free coconut oil in your soap. If you superfat...then this is a non truth.

....which brings me to a question that had not occurred to me until now. The above sample is how I list my ingredients on products, but on sugar scrubs I have been listing the shredded soap ingredient on the label as: saponified oils of cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, ...and so on. Considering the soap I use is 5% SF, just how picky do I need to get?

And thanks for the laughs you guys! Stressed out getting ready for a big show, and I needed to laugh today!!

 

[agriffin]

Ya know...this is how I do it.

Brown Sugar, Water, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Liquid Soap (water, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Potassium Hydroxide*), Stearic Acid, Emulsifying Wax NF, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Optiphen Preservative (Phenoxyethanol (and) Caprylyl Glycol (and) Sorbic Acid), Fragrance

Which I guess is technically wrong. I would want to break the ingredients out from the liquid soap and list them in order used as well. What a headache.