How to combine discount AND superfatting at trace

[onmyway67]

I assume people do both. If you want to superfat with a particular oil at trace, what are the considerations when choosing a lye discount? What is the potential fallout of too much combined superfatting?

Thanks in advance.

 

[onmyway67]

Here is a brief discussion on this topic that may be helpful to other newbies, as it was to me:

http://www.bloomworksoap.com/ARTICLES/s ... scount.htm

 

[Kat]

So....ummm did everyone read & understand the above post?? So...ummm is anyone gonna try and make their own recipe?? I think I'm going to re-read that about 9 times before that sinks thru to this ol' brain. :shock: :shock: Yikes. Maybe once I get about 100 lbs of soap under my belt, the superfatting and/or lye discount will be easier to understand. As I understand, even if you do a large lye discount, the cure time for your soap is still 3-6 weeks....correct???

 

[Becky]

Kat - the way I look at it, superfatting and lye discounting are essentially the same thing - using less lye than is required to 100% saponify your oils.

Lye discounting is using (for example) 5% less lye than required for the amount of oils that are in your recipe. So, for a recipe that has:
580g Olive Oil, 280g Coconut oil & 60g Shea Butter my lye calculator tells me that I need 138.6g of Lye. I then decide that I want a 5% lye discount - I now only need 131.7g of Lye.

Superfatting is using (for example) 5% more oils than you have lye for. So, for the same recipe - 580g Olive oil, 280g Coconut & 60g Shea, I need 138.6g of lye. This time, instead of discounting my lye by 5%, I increase my oils by 5%. For this example, I'm going to add 46g of Cocoa Butter at trace.

Either way, both methods use more less lye than required to 100% saponify the oils used. Bear in mind however, if you have too high a discount and/or superfat you run the risk of your soap turning rancid and developing 'dreaded orange spots' (DOS).

I do have one recipe that I do both with, and it is a really lovely bar of soap, however I find it needs a longer cure time as it is initially very oily when it comes out of the mold.

The only way I find to effectively reduce cure time is to either discount your water or use a different method, such as hot process, to cook off the water and make the saponification process finish sooner.

Does this help, or just add to the confusion?

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Well stated Becky! 8) Good, precise explanation and I agree completely with you as you explained.
Sometimes, like you, I'll take a 4% lye discount (minimum) in my recipe, and will add an ounce (28.3 g.) of shea butter at trace to my 32 ounce (905 g.)recipe.

Paul....

 

[Kat]

Yes Becky, that explaination was superb, I understand it better. Thanks!

 

[edco76]

Kat - the way I look at it, superfatting and lye discounting are essentially the same thing - using less lye than is required to 100% saponify your oils.

Lye discounting is using (for example) 5% less lye than required for the amount of oils that are in your recipe. So, for a recipe that has:
580g Olive Oil, 280g Coconut oil & 60g Shea Butter my lye calculator tells me that I need 138.6g of Lye. I then decide that I want a 5% lye discount - I now only need 131.7g of Lye.

Superfatting is using (for example) 5% more oils than you have lye for. So, for the same recipe - 580g Olive oil, 280g Coconut & 60g Shea, I need 138.6g of lye. This time, instead of discounting my lye by 5%, I increase my oils by 5%. For this example, I'm going to add 46g of Cocoa Butter at trace.

Either way, both methods use more less lye than required to 100% saponify the oils used. Bear in mind however, if you have too high a discount and/or superfat you run the risk of your soap turning rancid and developing 'dreaded orange spots' (DOS).

I do have one recipe that I do both with, and it is a really lovely bar of soap, however I find it needs a longer cure time as it is initially very oily when it comes out of the mold.

The only way I find to effectively reduce cure time is to either discount your water or use a different method, such as hot process, to cook off the water and make the saponification process finish sooner.

Does this help, or just add to the confusion?

My last batch has the orange spots, really they are more yello. does that mean my soap is rancid? I just though I botched the coloring or it was the vanilla in the FO. I used a 10% discount.

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Ed, if you took a 10% lye discount, that is on the high end and could be the reason for DOS. Also, one of your oils might have been going rancid on you and using it caused the DOS. I rarely go over a 6 to 7% lye discount and use T-50 (Vitamin E natural) in my oils and recipe.

DOS is OK for you to use for yourself or to give away, it's kind of hard to sell a bar with DOS though. DOS does not hurt the bar to use though.

Paul....

 

[edco76]

Ed, if you took a 10% lye discount, that is on the high end and could be the reason for DOS. Also, one of your oils might have been going rancid on you and using it caused the DOS. I rarely go over a 6 to 7% lye discount and use T-50 (Vitamin E natural) in my oils and recipe.

DOS is OK for you to use for yourself or to give away, it's kind of hard to sell a bar with DOS though. DOS does not hurt the bar to use though.

Paul....

Can I fix it? If I rebatch it will it go away? I am pretty sure my oil wasnt rancid because I just bought it.