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I've read somewhere that a few you home lotion makers heat up up your oil and your water phases in one container. I was curious as to how that's panning out for you?
I am still looking on my computer the articles I have been reading about the heat and hold method and how there are some very dangerous bacteria only come alive and the heat and hold temp and above. The cool down has made me nervous for it to sit and wait to get to my LGP's working temp, so I go with the recommendation to only use half the water after it gets to approx 150º then add in the balance of water cold to hasten cool down. Somewhere I read on Susan's heat and hold method that she is starting to rethink the heat and hold.I have never done HnH and now that I've read swiftcraftymonkey's post, I think I want to try it. I make small batches of lotion - 20 oz total. I am thinking of getting 2 2-cup glass measuring cups, putting water in one and oils in the other. Would it be better to put them in a pot of water on the stove or in a crockpot with some water in it?
For HnHers, what is your process?
I am still looking on my computer the articles I have been reading about the heat and hold method and how there are some very dangerous bacteria only come alive and the heat and hold temp and above. The cool down has made me nervous for it to sit and wait to get to my LGP's working temp, so I go with the recommendation to only use half the water after it gets to approx 150º then add in the balance of water cold to hasten cool down. Somewhere I read on Susan's heat and hold method that she is starting to rethink the heat and hold.
I am certainly not telling anyone to change their method my any means. Using the all in one method you do still heat and hold. There is a lot of info out there and I guarantee it is good and bad just like soap info
Since I don't plan to give away any lotions for several months, I might experiment- get a few of the microbial test kits from Lotion Crafters and test a lotion made with h and h vs a lotion made with what I call the Heat and Dump method. Using the same ingredients, conditions, preservatives, etc.Barb -- I wouldn't say that the "no heat and hold" method" is wrong. If you trust the performance of your emulsifier and trust your preservative to kill cooties for as long as your lotion is being used, the "no HnH" methods might be fine. It's just that the HnH method has two advantages over the other methods -- it sanitizes ingredients so the preservative will be effective for a long time and it helps ensure the emulsion is stable and long lasting. In a production environment with routine sanitation practices and consistent production methods, it's entirely reasonable that the no HnH methods work fine. For me as a hobbyist who only occasionally makes lotions, the HnH method gives me extra peace of mind that my lotion will be stable and long lasting.
thankyou for the info. I may very well still decide to heat and hold but I do think I will go with half cold water to cool it down faster. With cold water and an ice bath I can get it down to my preservatives requirement quickly. I do appreciate the info.Are you thinking of thermophilic bacteria, Carolyn? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophile If there are some obligate thermophilic bacteria in one's ingredients, the lotion would have to stay within their required temp range for them to thrive, but HnH doesn't last all that long and these bacteria can't deal with normal room temperatures. The others that are less picky about temperature (the facultative thermophiles) -- well, if they survive a HnH process, then a good preservative should take over. HnH cannot kill all microorganisms -- the point of HnH (and other sanitary manufacturing practices) is to reduce the number of cooties. If you have a way to ensure the microbe count is acceptably low without using HnH, then that works too.
That's why a broad spectrum preservative is also important -- it takes over after HnH and other sanitary practices are done. I get the feeling that some people are of the opinion to just let the preservative do all the work, but that's not necessarily the best idea. A preservative is a like a battery in a flashlight -- you can use up a lot all at once, or you can use up a little bit over a long time, but it can only do so much. When the battery runs out of juice or when the preservative is gone, it's gone. I want my preservative to last a long time, so I want my microbe count to be at a minimum when I make the lotion. I make lotion and soap in my kitchen -- I don't have a dedicated work space that I can keep as sanitary as I would like -- so HnH makes sense to me.
Pasteurization of milk is based on the same principle -- reduce the number of microbes to a low level and then use refrigeration to control the growth to a minimum. It doesn't STOP microbial growth, but it slows microbial growth to a safe amount over the lifetime of the product.
Again ... I'm not trying to say HnH is the only reasonable way to make a lotion. I'm just trying to explain why one might want to use this method, so people can make informed choices. Y'all have to make your own decisions about what is best for you.
Spores were mentioned but not the double heat and hold. That does makes sense to my tiny brain. Thankyou for the info. I am definitely going to double heat my raw shea which I do not necessarily trust to be as clean and sanitary as I would like. Might ruin some of the properties of the shea but oh well, better to be safe.The "dangerous bacteria" that come alive with heat is present in the form of spores. Spores are just about everywhere including in oils. They can be looked at as inactive or dormant bacteria that can't be killed by heat. The way to get rid of them is to heat the oils and let them cool for few days then repeat the heat and hold. The first heating activates the spores and they start growing. Once they are actively growing, they become susceptible to heat. The second heating kills them so the end product has a significantly reduced bacterial count.
The question really boils down to: is it necessary to do a double heating? It all depends on the quality of the starting oils and how strong a preservative you end up using. It also depends on the final bacterial count you want in the product. My vote is to reduce the bacterial count from the start since the product is going to sit at room temp for weeks or months.
The point of heating the oils and emulsifier and other oil soluble ingredients (in addition to sanitation) is to help with the formation of micelles. Micelles are the structures that form when oil and emulsifiers get cozy with each other and interact chemically. The heat and hold step gives the oils and emulsifier the time and energy they need to form micelles efficiently before they also have to interact with the water phase. This will help ensure the lotion will stay reliably emulsified during the life of the product.
I am definitely going to double heat my raw shea which I do not necessarily trust to be as clean and sanitary as I would like. Might ruin some of the properties of the shea but oh well, better to be safe.
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