High palm oil soap question

[Tracy von Elling]

Hello everyone,
I am wanting to use up some palm oil and am wondering if a recipe with mostly palm, coconut ( I usually use 33% for myself with a good superfat) and some olive will make a decent bar of soap? Is an INS of over 175 not a good? I don't know too much about looking at the INS except that it isn't as important for soap makers making soap at home but I could have it wrong. The palmatic number is 26 and I haven't made soap with a number that high so not sure about that either. I love my usual recipe and haven't used palm for a while, but I want to use it up so I want to use the highest amount in a recipe while still having a good bar of soap.
Any feedback would be so appreciated!
Edited to add: I think I want to add some olive oil to make a more balanced bar but still want to use higher palm oil!

 

[Obsidian]

I've used this recipe with good results, 5% SF. It might trace quickly so don't plan any intricate designs.

Palm 50%
Olive 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I've used this recipe with good results, 5% SF. It might trace quickly so don't plan any intricate designs.

Palm 50%
Olive 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

Thank you so much! This looks good. I am going to try it

 

[AAShillito]

My base recipe is
18 oz palm
14 oz olive
14 oz coconut
2 oz castor

Makes a nice simple bar

 

[cmzaha]

I like 40%-42% palm, 18% CO or CO/PKO split, 5% Castor, 9% shea, Any liquid of preference for the remaining, with a 31% Lye concentration 2% superfat. It will still move fairly fast so do not plan intricate swirls, but 2-3 colors will work.

Obisidian's recipe would also be nice.

EDTA: if you are not opposed to lard, adding in lard will help slow trace. I also like using Palm/Lard with low liquid oils.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

My base recipe is
18 oz palm
14 oz olive
14 oz coconut
2 oz castor

Makes a nice simple bar

Thank you for this. I will add this recipe to try!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I like 40%-42% palm, 18% CO or CO/PKO split, 5% Castor, 9% shea, Any liquid of preference for the remaining, with a 31% Lye concentration 2% superfat. It will still move fairly fast so do not plan intricate swirls, but 2-3 colors will work.

Obisidian's recipe would also be nice.

EDTA: if you are not opposed to lard, adding in lard will help slow trace. I also like using Palm/Lard with low liquid oils.

I am wanting to use up as much palm oil as I can since I don't use it anymore because I use Lard!
I won't plan anything intricate but will keep your recipe to try too.
Thanks so much! I appreciate it!

 

[cmzaha]

Any higher than 42% palm will give a waxy soap. Palm on it's own will not lather.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

Oh

Any higher than 42% palm will give a waxy soap. Palm on it's own will not lather.

I really appreciate this info. I was going to use 50% for one recipe, so that wouldn't have been good. I haven't used palm much and had thought I could substitute lard for palm. I usually use 50% lard and it's amazing. I also am finding adding olive oil has benefits but my soap seems to be too soft unless I use just 20% olive.
Still so much to learn! Thank you!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Without testing (but I'm curious as well for similar reasons), I'd say that, with proper precautions, as high as 60% palm can make an appreciable soap. Recipe suggestion: 20% coconut, 13% sunflower (or another high-linoleic oil to your taste), 7% castor, ROE, sodium citrate and lactate. Hot Process (or at least CPOP). INS 153.

Other tricks to help with too high hardness/low solubility/hesitant lather, are additional glycerol, sugar, or sorbitol. If available, you can swap 5…10% of the NaOH lye by KOH.

And as always with palm, remember to melt up the whole contents of your supply container to dissolve notorious stearin sediments.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I encourage you to think about fatty acid profiles, especially palmitic + stearic content when making substitutions. If you make a direct substitution by percentage, the palm soap be harder and less soluble (longevity = stearic + palmitic) compared with lard at the same percentage. If you like the hardness of your lard bar, you can drop the palm a little and add a little more liquid oil.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

Without testing (but I'm curious as well for similar reasons), I'd say that, with proper precautions, as high as 60% palm can make an appreciable soap. Recipe suggestion: 20% coconut, 13% sunflower (or another high-linoleic oil to your taste), 7% castor, ROE, sodium citrate and lactate. Hot Process (or at least CPOP). INS 153.

Other tricks to help with too high hardness/low solubility/hesitant lather, are additional glycerol, sugar, or sorbitol. If available, you can swap 5…10% of the NaOH lye by KOH.

And as always with palm, remember to melt up the whole contents of your supply container to dissolve notorious stearin sediments.

I have only been soaping for just over 2 years. I thought I knew some stuff but am realizing I still am not sure about why I love my usual soap recipe. I LOVE bubbles and I usually do 35% coconut. I don't find it drying with a high superfat. I add sugar and have had good reports back. Sometimes I do just 25%. Anyway, I will add sugar. I will need to search the group on using glycerol as I haven't done this before.
I appreciate this group so much! Everyone is so helpful!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I encourage you to think about fatty acid profiles, especially palmitic + stearic content when making substitutions. If you make a direct substitution by percentage, the palm soap be harder and less soluble (longevity = stearic + palmitic) compared with lard at the same percentage. If you like the hardness of your lard bar, you can drop the palm a little and add a little more liquid oil.

I will do some more research. I sort of understand a little about fatty acid profiles but maybe not enough if I was going to switch the lard for palm oil! Sigh. I will do more digging.
I do love the hardness of soap using lard. So you're saying if I do half the palm I want to use I should add something like olive oil/sunflower or any liquid oil?
Thank you!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I will do some more research. I sort of understand a little about fatty acid profiles but maybe not enough if I was going to switch the lard for palm oil! Sigh. I will do more digging.
I do love the hardness of soap using lard. So you're saying if I do half the palm I want to use I should add something like olive oil/sunflower or any liquid oil?
Thank you!

As a place to start - a soap calculator will give you the fatty acid percentages, and this webpage explains how they relate to soap qualities:
https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.asp
When I responded above, I wasn’t thinking about how much lard you might be using in the recipe you like. You’ve gotten plenty of good advice above about working with palm.

I still think it’s worth the time to learn how fatty acid profiles relate to soap qualities. It adds another tool to the soap making tool box. For example, my recipe that is based on palm (+ shea) is 28% stearic + palmitic (longevity in some calculators). If I further increase the palm, the soap feels a bit harder than I like and is not as swirl friendly as I would like. Knowing how much s+p I like in my palm-based soap is useful if I need to use a different liquid oil in my recipe. For example, if I ran out of rice bran oil and had to use high oleic sunflower instead, I would increase the palm so the s+p would stay at 28%. If I just subbed in the high oleic sunflower without thinking about the fatty acid profile (or checking on longevity in the soap qualities list), the resulting soap would be softer. By experimenting, I learned I like lard soap to be 32% s+p. It makes a creamier lather compared with my palm-based soap, which I expected based on the increase in s+p. By checking the fatty acid profiles, I also learned over time that I tend to like soap that has 10-15% linoleic fatty acid.

 

[AAShillito]

I have only been soaping for just over 2 years. I thought I knew some stuff but am realizing I still am not sure about why I love my usual soap recipe. I LOVE bubbles and I usually do 35% coconut. I don't find it drying with a high superfat. I add sugar and have had good reports back. Sometimes I do just 25%. Anyway, I will add sugar. I will need to search the group on using glycerol as I haven't done this before.
I appreciate this group so much! Everyone is so helpful!

Just be careful as the one time I added sugar I got a volcano!

 

[cmzaha]

Just be careful as the one time I added sugar I got a volcano!

I would be curious how much sugar you added. I used sugar for years before changing to Sorbitol without any problems with volcanos. My sugar ratio was 1% of my batch weight which is the same ratio I use for Sorbitol. My guess you were soaping too hot or used a fragrance that caused heating if you had a volcano along with the sugar.

 

[AAShillito]

I would be curious how much sugar you added. I used sugar for years before changing to Sorbitol without any problems with volcanos. My sugar ratio was 1% of my batch weight which is the same ratio I use for Sorbitol. My guess you were soaping too hot or used a fragrance that caused heating if you had a volcano along with the sugar.

It was only one tsp but I discovered in later batches without sugar that it was my FO accelerating