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JuneP

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I went to work this morning with the lye calculator, trying to get a good basic recipe with more bubbles than the one I posted yesterday. To my newbie senses, this seems like a better recipe. Would love some input on how this may be, and any major errors in the recipe, suggestions, etc. The ingredients are some that I have on hand

SoapCalc © Recipe Name: New Print Recipe
Total oil weight 48 oz Water as percent of oil weight 38.00 % Super Fat/Discount 3 % Lye Concentration 27.794 % Water : Lye Ratio 2.5979:1 Sat : Unsat Ratio 43 : 57 Iodine 54 INS 160 Fragrance Ratio 0.8 Fragrance Weight 2.40 oz Pounds Ounces Grams Water 1.140 18.24 517.09 Lye - NaOH 0.439 7.02 199.04 Oils 3.000 48.00 1,360.78 Fragrance 0.150 2.40 68.04 Soap weight before CP cure or HP cook
4.729 75.66 2,144.95 # √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams 1 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 31.04 0.931 14.90 422.41 2 Palm Oil 28.13 0.844 13.50 382.72 3 Olive Oil pomace 8.54 0.256 4.10 116.23 4 Apricot Kernal Oil 10.42 0.313 5.00 141.75 5 Castor Oil 21.88 0.656 10.50 297.67 Totals 100.00 3.000 48.00 1,360.78 Soap Bar Quality Range Your Recipe Hardness 29 - 54 41 Cleansing 12 - 22 21 Conditioning 44 - 69 55 Bubbly 14 - 46 41 Creamy 16 - 48 39 Iodine 41 - 70 54 INS 136 - 165 160 Lauric 15 Myristic 6 Palmitic 17 Stearic 3 Ricinoleic 20 Oleic 27 Linoleic 8 Linolenic 0 Additives Notes

Print Recipe
 
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JustBeachy

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I think my eyes are bleeding from trying to read that. haha

If I'm seeing it right, and just my opinion. Coconut is too high, I'd keep it at 20 or under. Castor is way high, I find anything over 10 produces a slimy feeling,I keep mine at 5. The Cleansing number at 21 will certainly produce bubbles, but you might find it too drying on the skin.

Here's a idea. Post your recipe like this.

Castor oil , the %
Olive oil , the %
Coconut oil, the %

and so on. You can also do your water and lye concentration, superfat etc.

Then if you want, just post the SoapCalc numbers,

Hardness, 20
Cleansing 15

etc.

It will make it easier for people to look at your recipe and give advice. Also, thats a pretty big batch to experiment with. Might want to try smaller batches until you find more of what you're looking for. Less waste that way, if the soap turns out like some of my first soaps. haha
 

HorseCreek

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That soap would be very slimy with the high castor oil. ( In this case, it's too much of a good thing, castor will help with the bubbles, but it will make poor soap at that high). It could/probably will be drying with that high of coconut and a low superfat.

Try something like:

Coconut 20%
Olive 30%
Palm/Lard/Tallow 15%
Castor 5%

Then make up the other 30% with butters (cocoa, shea etc) or other oils (where your apricot kernel would go, or avocado, more olive oil, etc)

You can also add sugar or honey to your soap to help with bubbles, but that brings on a whole new set of challenges so be sure to research it first. Adding milk can also help as it has sugars in it. Beer for the same reason, but again new challenges, so research it.
 

girlishcharm2004

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Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams 1 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 31.04 0.931 14.90 422.41 2 Palm Oil 28.13 0.844 13.50 382.72 3 Olive Oil pomace 8.54 0.256 4.10 116.23 4 Apricot Kernal Oil 10.42 0.313 5.00 141.75 5 Castor Oil 21.88 0.656 10.50 297.67 Totals 100.00 3.000 48.00 1,360.78 Soap Bar Quality Range Your Recipe Hardness 29 - 54 41 Cleansing 12 - 22 21 Conditioning 44 - 69 55 Bubbly 14 - 46 41 Creamy 16 - 48 39 Iodine 41 - 70 54 INS 136 - 165 160 Lauric 15 Myristic 6 Palmitic 17 Stearic 3 Ricinoleic 20 Oleic 27 Linoleic 8 Linolenic 0
It looks like you were trying to post this:

Coconut oil 31.04%
Palm oil 28.13%
Olive oil pomace 8.54%
Apricot kernal oil 10.42%
Castor oil 21.88%

Castor oil is way too high. Can you explain why you want to use these oils and at these amounts?
 

JuneP

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Thanks for so much great help!

I've written down your kindly suggestions and I'll put them through the lye calculator.

I used these ingredients, because they are mostly what I have on hand , Also, I kept playing with the amounts in the calculator to get them within the ranges listed in the calculator, and also trying to get more bubbles, since the first soap I posted, was low on bubbles and this new one seemed to fit within the guidelines. Now I know that the castor oil at this amount is definitely not something I would want! Interesting to find out that just because they fit within range doesn't make a good soap! Had no idea Coconut oil could be drying. I will definitely remember all these things and add them to my notebook.

I'll try the 5% Castor Oil. Is there a book that specifically has a chart showing suggested limits for the various fats and oils with warning about what too much or too little would do to the finished soap?

So back to square one I'll put those other suggestions in the calculator and work with it some more. So much to learn!!! Fortunately, I love math and calculations. I do have cocoa butter, shea butter, avocado oil, safflower oil and the right Olive oil on hand as well as sweet almond oil that arrived today. So I'll work on the recipe adding these and see how it turns out.

Good suggestion about the batch amount. I'm thinking about an immersion blender being able to mix a too small batch, so do you think a one pound batch would be the best size to aim for, for a first effort?

And sorry for how the recipe looked in the post. I copied and pasted it from the calculator page, but it didn't paste as it was copied. :-(

Again, thanks so much for your suggestions and help!

June
 
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JustBeachy

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Sounds like you're having fun and getting the gist of it. Try to think of it as getting a mix of hard and soft oils. Try to keep in mind, that there are some hard and fast rules, but there also lots of variance. Coconut oil can be super drying, however a salt bar made with 100% Coconut oil, super fatted at 20 % will not be. It's these variances that make the process fun, and at times, confusing.

Again, I like to keep my coconut at or below 20%, castor at 5%. Don't get too hung up on the "cleansing number". You need to also pay attention the the creamy stable lather. I haven't used soapcalc for my soaps in a while now, but plugging some of mine in, would result in 12 to 15 in the cleansing. Yet my soap lathers quite well. It's more of a creamy rich lather, than a "Mr. Bubbles", type of lather. :D

To me, the soapcalc numbers can be as much of a hindrance as they are a help. I think you'll be fine with some one pound tests. Tweek your recipe with some of those butters, bring the oils more in line, until you find something that looks "right" for you. Make the soap. While it definitely takes a month or more cure to find out how good the soap is, you will get an idea of drying/lather within the first week. If you test the soap at say , the one week mark, and you're getting no lather at all, and/or it is the epitome of "squeaky clean", then you have at least you have a real world feel for what's produced. Instead of just a number on a calculator.

Keep notes of the tests. how it traced, how it set up, how it was at cut, one week, two weeks, etc. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it, developing a "your" recipe can take some time. To me, that's always been the fun of it.
 
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Susie

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Do you have any reasons why lard and/or tallow would not be able to be used? If not, use it either with, or in place of the palm.

Also, I would make no smaller than a 1 lb oil batch due to small errors getting magnified in very small batches. The stick blender should be fine as long as you have a narrow but tall container to mix it in.

As stated before, try dropping the coconut oil and the castor oil. Coconut at no higher than 20% and castor at no higher than 5%. Add the remaining 15% to your palm/lard/tallow. I would strongly suggest no more than 4 oils for a first batch of soap.

Be sure you have a good digital scale that can weigh grams as well as tenths of ounces. Don't use a postal scale as they don't do well when you are pouring into a cup. They are geared to take a weight and stop.
 

JuneP

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Took all the great advice. Here what I got.

Took all your wonderful suggestions and worked on this last night and this morning. At first I went with four basic oils but it seemed not quite right; so I did another version and replaced some of the Olive oil with with some cocoa butter and I think this makes a better batch; but your generous feedback will tell me if i was correct.
And, I do have a very high quality Ohaus grams scale that I use for glaze calculations. It can weight 3000 grams at a time and shows two decimal points.
As suggested, I made the recipe for just enough soap for about 1 lb, and kept the castor oil, and coconut oil at the levels suggested:

Here's the first one I came up:

Version 1 OZ Version 2 OZ % Version 1 % Vesion 2

2 Coconut oil 76 2 18.18 18.18
5 Olive Oil Pumace 3 45.45 27.27
3.5 Palm Oil 3.5 31.82 31.82
0.5 Castor Oil 0.5 4.55 4.55
0.0 Cocoa Butter 2.0 0.00 18.18

Version 1 Version 2

38 Hardness 46
13 Cleansing 13
60 Conditioning 51
17 Bubbly 17
30 Creamy 38
61 Iodine 52
145 INS 154

OZ

4.18 Water 4.18
1.51 Lye 1,52
11.0 Oils 11.0
0.34 Fragrance .034

Super fat discount for both 5.5

Weight before curing: Water Lyr Ratio

Version 1 Version 2 Version 1 Version 2
17.03 17.04 2.7689:1 2.7541:1

Lye Concentration Sat/Unsat
Version 1 Version 2 Version 1 Version 2
26.533 26.63 39:61 47.5

Weight before curing:
17.03 OZ

Tonight I'll try using some of these oils, but trying the suggestion of using some lard. Do you use Crisco as a lard source or if not, do you buy lard at the grocery store?

Thanks!
June

I don't know why, but I have all those numbers beautifully space for easy viewing, and after I hit send, it squished all the number together. Anyone have advice to how to keep that from happening. Sorry and thanks!
 
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Obsidian

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Crisco isn't lard, its soybean and palm oils. Lard is render pig fat, you can find it around the meat section. It generally comes in a white box/tub with green writing.

Your numbers look a lot better this time around. I keep my cleansing number between 10-15, any higher and it will be too drying. Try and not worry too much about the numbers though, they are more of a guideline then anything. My shampoo bar has a bubbly number of 9 and it produces plenty of bubbles.
 

JustBeachy

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I agree with Obsidian. They look much better. I'd try a batch of the second version. and see how it does for you.
 

Susie

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Our lard is on the baking aisle by the olive oil. It comes in 1 lb or 4 lb tubs. The side of the label towards you may read Manteca. That is the Spanish name for lard.
 
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JuneP

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2 Recipes to consider that I'm hoping will be slow to trace

I fought through computer connections problems today, trying to come up withe my first, own CP recipe that would be slow to trace. Doing some on line research, someone mentioned that keeping the hard oils around 45% and the softer oils around 55%, as well as mixing at room temperatures, keeping cocoa butter below 10% etc, etc. might help with slow tracing. So I used the Soapcalc.net software since my new professional soap software was just downloaded this morning and I'll need more time to start on that one. Anyway, here are two similar recipes I came up with, using those slow trace guidelines. Even though the results are very similar, the materials are not exactly the same.

Version 1
%
Coconut Oil 72% 20.5
Palm Oil 15.00
Olive Oil Pomace 51.00
Shea Butter 9.50
Castor Oil 4.00

Hardness 37
Cleansing 14
Conditioning 61
Bubbly 17
Creamy 26
Iodine 62
INS 143

Super Fat Discount 6%

Version 2

%
Coconut oil 20
Palm Oil 20
Olive Oil Pomace 50
Shea Butter 5
Apricot Kernel Oil 2
Castor Oil 3

Hardness 37
Cleansing 14
Conditioning 61
Bubbly 16
Creamy 26
Iodine 62
INS 143

Superfat discount 6

I want to use one of these, if you think they would work, to make my first CP, 1 lb test soap batch, using some Nag Champa Fragrance fragrance oil. My intent for this recipe is to see if it will trace slowly, so I can use it as a base for swirl techniques. Would love feedback. I want to feel fairly confident with the recipe before I make my first basic CP soap; but I'm really hoping that this would also be a good choice for a basic recipe to use for all the swirl techniques I'm wanting to try after I do a simpler recipe, as well as hoping, one of these versions will be a decent soap for a first try at CP.

Thanks again for any input and advice.

June
 
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snappyllama

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I like caster @ 5% in everything for the bubbles. That is a lot of OO, so be prepared for your soap to take a while to un-mold and cure.

I think I remember reading that Nag Champa FO accelerated trace when I was FO shopping, you might want to check out the reviews where you got it so you can be prepared. :)

One of the hardest things for me to learn was when to lay off the poor stick blender. I've redone the same recipe with vastly different consistencies, because I was initially over-zealous with mixing.

Now, I blend/alternate hand mixing until I have a very light trace, separate into containers for coloring, hit with a SB until just mixed in (alternating hand mixing while scraping the side and bottom of container). Things are still pretty fluid at this point. Then I put in my FO and hand stir it. I've read here that some folks put their FO in with their oils prior to lye, but I think I've found what works for me. I figure that if a FO misbehaves, at least I've already got it colored and ready to go.

Another tip - I like to take a bit of oil from my batch and premix my colorants into it. It incorporates easier and requires less mixing into the actual batter.

Good luck!
 

CaraBou

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Hi June, recipe #2 seems to be on the right track... except that it only adds to 80%. Did you mean to include the remainder as palm oil? If so, I think it looks great for your goal of creating a nice soap that is slow to trace so that you can swirl. A *minor and totally optional* suggestion I make is to drop either the SAO or the castor, and add that percentage to the remaining oil to make a total of 5%. Adding 2 or 3 percent of anything may not be worth messing with an extra oil, or be detectable in the finished soap. Like snappyllama, I'd recommend going with castor, but either way you'll be fine.

Good luck and have fun!
 

JuneP

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Forgot the Palm oil!

Just edited recipe 2. I forgot to add the 20% Palm oil!

It is a lot of Olive oil and I just read that high olive oil can turn yellow, pink colorants greenish; but I also read that Canola oil can sub for olive oil. So back to the calculator I go to see what that substitution does to the all over numbers.

Question: Another newbie question. Can I just use Canola oil and other vegetable oils that I buy at the grocery store for soap making. I want to make my first melt and pour tomorrow and if I like the numbers after replacing some of all of the olive oil with Canola, don't want to have to wait for an on line order to arrive, if store bought Canola oil would work OK.

Also, any recommendations for fragrances and Essential Oils that won't accelerate trace. I have some very expensive, high purity EO's that we were taking for healing so I'd like to know if I can use them for soap making: Here are some of the ones I have: Frankincense, Sandalwood, Basil, Lemon, Lemon Grass, Wild Orange and one called Citrus bliss which lists the following: Wild Orange, Lemon, Grapefruit, Mandarin, Bergamot, Tangerine, Clementine, and Vanilla Absolute. (this smells wonderful!).

June
 

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