Coconut Milk Soaps

[Curlysoaps]

Hello,

I have recently been trying coconut milk soap, and was wondering if I could pick all your brains for some suggestions! My difficulty has been that the soap becomes thick really quick - I am wondering if it is type of coconut milk, too high a % of hard oils, or stage at which I add the coconut milk?

I have been using canned coconut milk, so more like a thick cream, 6% SF. My latest experimental recipe is:
25% olive oil
20% coconut
20% palm oil
20% rice bran
7.5% shea butter
7.5% cocoa butter

I divided total water in half, and used half water and half coconut milk, dissolved lye in water, allowed lye water and oils to cool to 95 degrees and mixed at that point, adding coconut milk to oils just before lye water.

I completed some piping on top, which started off well but then quickly became too hard and I burst my piping bag, at which point I threw all my left over quickly hardening soap in a box lined with freezer paper that I guess I will re-batch/grate and add to soaps or find some other way of incorporating (does everyone else have tubs of soapy mistakes?! Mine are growing lol).

I love colors and swirls so I would really like to be able to do this with coconut milk soap. I look at soap to buy and see that it has coconut milk in and people do beautiful things with it, so I know its possible, I just can't get my process/recipe correct. I have heard of using 5% coconut milk, using carton coconut milk that you would drink rather than the more cream type I have been using, or adding at trace. Would any of these help?

Thank you in advance, and I am excited to be part of this soaping making forum

 

[lenarenee]

I don't think the coconut milk has anything to do with. That wonderful thickness from your canned coconut milk is deceptive - it doesn't hasten trace. In my experience I've seen no difference in trace whether I use liquid or powdered coconut milk.

Now, I do know that your recipe is going to move fairly fast anyway with palm, coconut oil, and 15% butters. There are ways to slow a recipe down and that means changing the oils and fats. I have a high lard recipe that is ridiculously slow. For ex: I made enough to fill 4 - 2.5lb molds....all with swirls. By the time I got done with 3 molds, my batter had only thickened from a heavy cream consistency to a spoonable heavy cream consistency that would barely hold any shape.

I also soap cold...very cold. (colder than I should really as I risk false trace).

Your recipe sounds wonderful - I've never made one like that. But you may need to save that for in the pot swirls and drop swirls.

 

[Curlysoaps]

Thanks Lenarenee,

That's interesting that coconut milk doesn't speed trace - that is completely not what I expected. I really like the recipe, I just wish it gave me a bit more time. I am also considering reducing the rice bran, I hadn't realized it could cause DOS, it hasn't in my experience but I would rather not find out that it does! I had been thinking the butters may be too much. I guess I am just confused, I look at professional soap ingredient lists and see they have all these wonderful ingredients in them plus they still have time to make their soap amazing - in my experience with this recipe I haven't even had time for in the pot swirls or drop swirls by the time I've incorporated colors, its super fast.

I have never made soap with lard, but I am guessing that it acts similarly to coconut/palm oils? So for a good swirling consistency reduce all the hard and increase the liquid, and try soaping at a colder temp? I also add sodium lactate, and I noticed that adding that actually increases the temp of the lye water, I had it down to 90 and with sodium lactate it shot up to 100. I'd never thought of that before or checked, so am thinking I've actually been soaping with a higher temp than I previously realized!
Thank you

 

[soapmaker]

Yes, reduce your butters, more liquid oils and cooler temperatures. But like lenarenee said lard traces ridiculously slow, unlike coconut and palm. It will give you a long time to swirl till your heart's content.

 

[lenarenee]

Ack. I see you've read this already. I forgot to add another very important reason for thick batter....stick blending too long. When you sb only to emulsion, you have more time to work with your batter. Recognizing emulsion can take a little practice - there's a video somewhere that might help.

 

[Curlysoaps]

Thank you both! I am going to have another attempt today, once I manage to get out of my pajamas to get more coconut milk. I didn't know lard was slow, I assumed it would be fast. That's interesting.

Another question I had actually - is coconut milk likely to go rancid over time in soap?

 

[lenarenee]

If you're using a laser thermometer - you'll get a different reading each time. They register the surface temp which doesn't reflect the temp in other areas of the batter. Thoroughly mixing the batter then immediately taking the temp should give a more accurate reading. I gave up taking temperatures and just make sure my oils and lye water are very clear.

The recipes labels you've been reading don't show the percentage of butters that soap used - it could be 1% each just to have "label appeal"!

Ya know...for your recipe try a small 1 lb test batch - omit the palm oil altogether and give that percentage to the olive oil or add high oleic safflower/sunflower. Olive oil is slow at curing, but sure makes a hard bar when it does. That...plus the 15% butters will be sufficient for a hard bar (given more time to cure).

Thank you both! I am going to have another attempt today, once I manage to get out of my pajamas to get more coconut milk. I didn't know lard was slow, I assumed it would be fast. That's interesting.

Another question I had actually - is coconut milk likely to go rancid over time in soap?

Lard is slow....like....add lye, mix, fix dinner, take a power nap, then do swirls slow. I do a triple or quadruple batch to fill 3 or 4 molds....and still have to wait on the batter to thicken if I want to texture the tops.

I have no reason to think coconut milk, canned or not, adds to dos. And I've made a ton of salt bars with tons of coconut milk.

 

[Curlysoaps]

Ya know...for your recipe try a small 1 lb test batch - omit the palm oil altogether and give that percentage to the olive oil or add high oleic safflower/sunflower. Olive oil is slow at curing, but sure makes a hard bar when it does. That...plus the 15% butters will be sufficient for a hard bar (given more time to cure).

I love this idea! I will give it a shot and let you know how it turns out. Plus I looove high levels of olive oil in soap

Good point on the label appeal. I hadn't thought of that. I am thinking about experimenting with different quantities of butters to see where I actually feel they make any difference, because they are so expensive also, and I don't know how much larger levels actually adds to what I appreciate in soap. I am happy to hear that you have had no issues with coconut milk, because it feels so good in soap! Thank you

 

[earlene]

Rice Bran Oil doesn't have to cause DOS. I made 100% RBO soap a few months ago and they are 100% DOS-free.

The shea is softer than cocoa butter, so if it were me, and I wanted more time, I might reduce the CB but not the shea. I have made soap with 15% shea that moved slow enough for nice swirls. But I have not yet tried piping, so I don't know how long that all takes. I have used squirt bottles, though, and do understand about recipes that thicken up too fast for that method.

I second what lenarenee said about over stick blending. Not only does it speed trace, but can introduce unsightly air bubbles into your batter. Unfortunately it takes a lot of restraint and practice for a new soaper to learn that minimal use of the SB gives better results.

 

[lsg]

I agree earlene. I regularly use ricebran oil in soap and do not have problems with DOS. I think the use of high quality RBO makes a difference.

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't see that you are including the fat in the coconut milk as part of the fat in your recipe. If so, your superfat will increase by the amount of fat in the coconut milk. Depending on the product you use, the increase can be quite a lot. If that doesn't bother you ... or if you're using a low fat coconut milk ... that's fine. But it's something to think about. More: https://classicbells.com/soap/nutritionLabel.html

 

[Curlysoaps]

Thank you all! That is super helpful.

I agree earlene. I regularly use ricebran oil in soap and do not have problems with DOS. I think the use of high quality RBO makes a difference.

I am using brambleberrys so hopefully I should be good then. Do you keep yours out or in the fridge?

I don't see that you are including the fat in the coconut milk as part of the fat in your recipe. If so, your superfat will increase by the amount of fat in the coconut milk. Depending on the product you use, the increase can be quite a lot. If that doesn't bother you ... or if you're using a low fat coconut milk ... that's fine. But it's something to think about. More: https://classicbells.com/soap/nutritionLabel.html

Deanna, I had not even thought of that! I love that, it’s like every time there is always something new to think about and figure out, I have been using just regular coconut canned milk not low fat, doing a roughly 60:40 split water:coconut milk, adding the coconut milk to oils before trace. I wonder what the soap will be like!

With regard to stick blending, I am finding emulsification really difficult to determine with coconut milk added in. What I noticed yesterday was after adding lye water and coconut milk, the milk kind of looks like emulsification already as it’s white in the bottom of the jug. So I stick blend, and can see looking at the edge of the jug half my mix is white, the other top half is dark oils. It takes a while to lose the oils on top, as in I do stock blend more than I ever did without coconut milk; but it seems like by the time It appears everything is emulsified (no dark oil swirls on top) I am already at trace- did I miss emulsification? Or does coconut milk sit at the bottom and make things confusing!?

I am actually wondering about just adding coconut milk at trace, whether this would be easier as I know everything is already emulsified. If I did this, how do you calculate how much coconut milk to add, do you just do it as the SF or still take out of your water and coconut oil rates?

Sorry for the long post, just so many things to think about I am very grateful for all the assistance!

 

[lsg]

I buy my RBO, six gallons at-a-time, from Riceland and do not refrigerate it. So far, I have had no problem with rancidity. I use their RBO for cooking as well as for soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

The batches I've made with coconut milk, I just add it up front.

My suggestion -- Hand stir a lot more and stick blend a lot less. It's very likely your soap is plenty emulsified with only 2-4 seconds of stick blending. Try adding the coconut milk to your fats and SB'ing for a few seconds to get the fats from the CM blended with the rest of the fats. Then add the lye.

Hand stir the fat-lye mixture for, oh, 20 seconds. Then SB for 1-2 seconds. Hand stir for about 30 seconds and observe the soap while stirring. Be sure to scrape the sides of the bowl while hand stirring. Then SB another 1-2 seconds. Hand stir and observe. Etc.

Taking the time to observe the batter and SB'ing a lot less will definitely help you to not overshoot emulsification. It's like adding salt to a recipe -- you can always add more, but you can't take it away if you do too much.

 

[Curlysoaps]

The batches I've made with coconut milk, I just add it up front.

My suggestion -- Hand stir a lot more and stick blend a lot less. It's very likely your soap is plenty emulsified with only 2-4 seconds of stick blending. Try adding the coconut milk to your fats and SB'ing for a few seconds to get the fats from the CM blended with the rest of the fats. Then add the lye.

Hand stir the fat-lye mixture for, oh, 20 seconds. Then SB for 1-2 seconds. Hand stir for about 30 seconds and observe the soap while stirring. Be sure to scrape the sides of the bowl while hand stirring. Then SB another 1-2 seconds. Hand stir and observe. Etc.

Taking the time to observe the batter and SB'ing a lot less will definitely help you to not overshoot emulsification. It's like adding salt to a recipe -- you can always add more, but you can't take it away if you do too much.

DeeAnna this is exactly what I needed, thank you so much for this! I will try this today Also, stick blending the coconut milk and oil together, yes!! I think that may solve my problem. Thank you thank you!

 

[DeeAnna]

I will have my fingers crossed for you -- may the soap gremlins stay away when you soap!

 

[penelopejane]

You said in your first post that you added the coconut milk to the oils then you later said you added it at trace.
Keep clear notes so you know exactly what you did with each batch so you can compare them when they cure.

Use 1% SF on the soap calc when you use coconut milk and the soap should be fine without further maths.

 

[earlene]

I do not refrigerate my soaping oils. I just don't have room to do that, although in the summertime here, it might be a good idea.

 

[Curlysoaps]

You said in your first post that you added the coconut milk to the oils then you later said you added it at trace.
Keep clear notes so you know exactly what you did with each batch so you can compare them when they cure.

Use 1% SF on the soap calc when you use coconut milk and the soap should be fine without further maths.

Thanks Penelopejane I am adding it to the oils, I was considering whether to try adding at trace but so far have not done it this way.

Earlene - good point, that would take up a lot of room!

 

[Curlysoaps]

So I changed my recipe a fair bit based on suggestions made here, and I think it went really well so THANK YOU so much!!! I will cut tomorrow or next day and post some pics. I was literally so excited I was jumping around last night with happiness!

The soap I made before changing stuff with the exact recipe as above I just cut this morning, on cutting I noticed a tiny bit of oil running down my soap. Does this matter? I did unmold this slightly too soon (I really should get a second mold). I also checked my coconut milk, it was low fat so I calculated the SF and would've been around 6% as I used a carton of the more drinking type coconut milk. Would this oil be related to the 6% SF?