CO and OO free facial bar?

[msuver]

Hi folks! I'm a relatively new soaper, having only been making CP soap since Dec of 2018, with about 20-25 batches under my belt. I have two go-to palm-free recipes that I really enjoy for my body (one a general nice cleansing bar, one a little more luxury/creamy that I use for pampering and shaving), but recently I've been wanting to make a coconut oil and olive oil free bar for washing my face. I wouldn't use this daily, as it would be too stripping for my sensitive skin, but paranoid me in this unprecedented time wants an actual soap-soap for washing my face after going grocery shopping.

My face doesn't tolerate CO or olive oil, and I don't use palm for ethical reasons. I did some research and came up with the following potential recipe:

20% Tallow
20% Lard
10% Shea butter
20% Sunflower
15% Hemp
10% Apricot Kernel
5% Castor

5% SF and 33% lye solution

For additives, sodium lactate (only 1/2 tsp ppo - the sweet spot for me) for hardness and colloidal oatmeal (1 tbsp ppo) for soothing properties. I may also do a chamomile infusion for the soft oils, though I recognize that's mostly for fun and I doubt it would have much, if any, effect, as it's a wash-off product. I would leave it unscented. I am not overly concerned about price - this is my main hobby, so with my "fun" budget I don't mind splurging a little for nice oils or additives.

Opinions? Feedback? Advice? I know a soap that is free of all of three of the "classic" oils is a little odd... So input is super welcome.

Thanks in advance!

 

[msuver]

I made this soap this afternoon! So far so good. The hempseed oil colored the batter very very lightly green, and overall it behaved very well. We'll see how it cuts tomorrow, and then how it turns out in 4-6 weeks

 

[Arimara]

Well since you made the soap anyway, I hope it turns out well. Generally, we'd probably would have suggested for you to simplify it a bit. I personally can't use lard on my face unless I want those nice, itchy allergy-type bumps to appear (but it makes a nice soap for my body) but I can comment that tallow, shea butter and the castor are all good. I have yet to use sunflower oil (that may change) and I don't use hemp due to its shelf life. Apricot oil, I use as is on my skin when I have it.

 

[msuver]

Thanks for the feedback! Bummer to hear about lard being possibly irritating - this actually the first time I've used it. Previously I've only used tallow and plant oils/butters. I'd heard so many good things about lard (seems like a LOT of people prefer lard over tallow, or at least a mix of the two), and couldn't find anything about whether lard was comedogenic or irritating. Good thing I only did a small test batch. And it'll still be soap at the end!

The other oils were chosen as hopefully non-clogging oils to replace the olive oil and avocado oil I usually use, while still trying to keep individual oils under recommended usage rates.

You suggested simplifying. What ratios would you recommend? Would something like this be a good candidate?

45% Tallow
10% Shea
20% Apricot Kernel
20% Sunflower
5% Castor

 

[msuver]

Cut yesterday and trimmed today. Got partial gel despite insulating so I'll probably CPOP next time, but everything seems pretty hunky-dory so far. I'll report back in a month or two with my feelings about this soap!

 

[Rsapienza]

My son has severe eczema and I use lard for him. I do give it a ridiculously long cure. Actually, tallow, I believe has some cleansing properties. Everyone's skin is unique. I hope yours is fabulous!

 

[szaza]

Which oils your skin likes is very personal. What one person likes might not work for the other and vice versa. Be aware that saponified oils change their effect on your skin compared to when you just slather them on, so looking for non comodogenic oils or oils that are supposed to be good for the skin is probably a bit of a waste of time (and money), since their properties will completely change in soap (and since soap is a wash off product, any properties that would stick wouldn't have time to do their work)
It seems like there are a lot of poly unsaturated fatty acids in your soap recipe (look in the soap calc for linoleic and linolenic acids, these are abundant in sunflower, hemp and apricot kernel oils). These fatty acids degrade faster than others and can cause DOS/rancidity, which would be a waste of such precious oils. A regularly used guideline is keeping linoleic+linolenic under 15%. I think your recipe is over that, but I didn't run it through a calc so I could be wrong.
If I make 0% CO soaps, I usually also lower the superfat. Mine is now around 0%, but if you want a safety margin, I'd suggest 1-2%sf. 5% seems a bit high and it might kill the small amount of lather this soap will produce.
One oil that I was surprised how well my skin liked it in soap was rice bran oil. Unfortunately it was also quite slimy.. but for a face soap that might be an oil worth trying. I also really like beeswax in gentle soap, but as I said before that's just personal preference and the only thing you can do is experiment and try to find out what your skin likes
Good luck and let us know how your soap turned out!

 

[Saponificarian]

I think it would be great! I have a similar recipe but with 10% coconut oil and it’s really nice.

 

[msuver]

Thanks for the feedback! This is the kind of discussion I was really looking forward to.

I didn't think about having low superfat, with the lack of CO. That makes a lot of sense. The main reason I was looking for non comedogenic oils was specifically so that whatever isn't saponified wouldn't mess my face up too bad. But lowering the superfat sounds like a really good idea. I'll try 3% for my next attempt.

I don't think I will be using beeswax - I'm not exactly scared of it, but soaping at temperatures high enough to get the beeswax to work is just not something I feel like dealing with quite yet! Maybe in the future.

I'll definitely check out rice bran oil as a good lower-cost oil choice.

Third try, very simple, subbing in rice bran oil and bumping up shea to tamp down the polyunsaturated oils. I am sitting right at 15% polyunsaturated fats. Is this amount of rice bran okay? My bubbly is at 8 and my cleansing is at 4... which is probably fine for a face soap. I'm not terribly concerned if I don't have tons of fluffy lather!

45% Tallow
15% Shea
35% Rice bran
5% Castor

 

[atiz]

I would like that recipe (have a very similar one that I use for my face too).

If you like beeswax, don't be scared of it -- you really don't need to soap very hot if it is melted and mixed with the melted oils. 1% already makes a difference.

 

[msuver]

I don't have any strong feelings either way about beeswax and I've been really happy with the performance of my recipes so far, so haven't felt a need to start mucking about with it. But if I get bored, I will definitely look into it.

 

[Arimara]

Thanks for the feedback! Bummer to hear about lard being possibly irritating - this actually the first time I've used it. Previously I've only used tallow and plant oils/butters. I'd heard so many good things about lard (seems like a LOT of people prefer lard over tallow, or at least a mix of the two), and couldn't find anything about whether lard was comedogenic or irritating. Good thing I only did a small test batch. And it'll still be soap at the end!

The other oils were chosen as hopefully non-clogging oils to replace the olive oil and avocado oil I usually use, while still trying to keep individual oils under recommended usage rates.

You suggested simplifying. What ratios would you recommend? Would something like this be a good candidate?

45% Tallow
10% Shea
20% Apricot Kernel
20% Sunflower
5% Castor

Lard isn't irritating- I just can't use it on my face and for the most part, I attribute it to what that pig may have been fed (I do not alway break out when eating bacon so I have not figured out my weirdness). I can use lard soap on the rest of my body with no issues. Tallow soap i can use but I personally find tallow to be more cleansing in a weird way. The amount of tallow you have listed here is actually as high as I would personally go with tallow. Again, that is my skin. Please, by all means, try lard and see if you like it, if you're interested.

 

[shunt2011]

As stated everyone's skin likes different things. My face does great with lard based soap. I use it at 40-45%.

Another recipe that makes a great facial soap is:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/
I don't use soybean but up the Avocado with no problem. It's a great gentle soap.

 

[msuver]

I love avocado oil! That shampoo bar recipe isn't super far off my "luxury" recipe (remove the soybean, add some tallow and apricot kernel oil). I had read that avocado oil can be bad for the face, though, which is why I omitted it from my recipe. But maybe in a wash-off, as seems to be the consensus here, it's not so bad?

There are just so many options... I guess I'll just make a couple of test batches and see how it goes!

 

[shunt2011]

Just remember what an oil begins as isn’t what it is when in soap. Coconut oil is great for the skin as is, however, in soap it’s a cleansing oil and strips the oils from the skin. I use and love avocado in soap.

 

[msuver]

Coconut oil is straight terrible for my skin, unfortunately, even beyond its stripping nature in soap. I know that lots of oils have varying levels of unsaponifiables, on top of any left over oils from the superfat. Maybe I'm over indexing, but given just how bad coconut oil is for my skin, I don't want to take any chances!