Avoiding DOS

[Tamijean]

I live in a small Caribbean village where power is optional and humidity is high, i was wanting to make soap but an concerned about rancidity.I make a 20 percent superfatted coconut oil soap which works find, but it is expensive. Would it be possible to use some local soy or vegetable oil as half of the oil with no superfat, then add the extra coconut oil at trace to bring the soap up to a 15 to 20 percent superfat?

I was wondering if all the soy was saponified and the more stable coconut oil was the superfat if it would be less likely to get orange spots/

It makes sense, but I thought that if doing a 2 stage oil addition actually accomplished anything then someone would have instructions on how to do it.

has anyone tried adding the superfatting oil after the beginning stages of trace?

 

[Obsidian]

Adding oil at trace won't allow you to pick which oil remains as the superfat. Lye is still very active at trace and will take whatever oil it wants. The only way to truly choose your SF oil is to make hot process and add your SF after the soap has cooked and is fully saponified.

 

[Millie]

What are your other options for vegetable oils? It is possible to make a great soap with much less coconut oil. For those, it helps to have a lower superfat for better lather, but they will feel less drying because there is less CO.

Rosemary Oleoresin Extract and Tetrasodium EDTA are often recommended to delay rancidity, although I'm not sure how much they would help a high soybean oil soap.

 

[cherrycoke216]

Do you have access to palm oil, high oleic sunflower oil, high oleic safflower oil,olive oil,or sweet almond oil?
These are better options than soybean oil. Of course you can use soybean oil, but within a moderate percentage. If you're already in this hot and humid weather, I suggest you use less than other's advice.

I put olive oil and sweet almond oil latter because of the average price. Not quite sure if it's cheaper in Carribean village.
As has been said, EDTA and rosemary oleo resin extract can retard rancidity. And add Citric acid it become sodium citrate, something can retard rancidity, too. You add in 10g citric acid, then add in extra 6g NaOH to compensate, or else you get higher superfat.

Hope someone else in your region will chime in, I vaguely remember a member move to Carribean from USA. Her avatar is a girl painting.

 

[Arimara]

What are the cheapest oils you have, aside from soy and vegetable oils? I've never been to the islands my grandfather and great-grand hail from so I have no idea how expensive oils can get.

 

[Susie]

You can always use lard.

 

[lsg]

If avocado oil is readily available in your area, it would make a good addition to your soap at 10%-15%.

 

[Tamijean]

In my village I can get canola oil, corn oil, vegetable oil and soy oil. I use whole avocado which makes a soap that feels very creamy but I don't have a good source for avocado oil so I haven't used it. I have plenty of mango but no mango butter so occasionally I will add a little mango and color with bija which I think is like annetto in the states.

I am looking for palm oil, and the olive oil is almost as expensive as the coconut oil. Thanks for all the great replies

 

[cherrycoke216]

canola,corn, vegetable, & soy oil should be used within a moderate usage rate. Or else DOS inviting. Especially in your weather.

And vegetable oil often is soy oil, or soy oil as a primary ingredient with cottonseed, canola,sunflower, or safflower oil and the like. And blend oil is a problem in soaping.

Adding avocado puree can make a creamy, luxurious soap even you don't have access to avocado oil. Just remember to Check how much puree is too much, or it will grow mold. I think it's a tablespoon per pound of oils? I can be wrong, so please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Tamijean]

what percentage would be considered moderate?

Thanks so much for the help

I have read elsewhere that canola shouldn't exceed 40% with a comfortable target in the 20%-30% range, what would you consider moderate?

I will measure better on my avocado next time, I just threw a little in and it worked well but I was probably not much over the 1 tbsp per lb mark. Thanks for the heads up, I didn't think about mold!

I am leaning toward doing a test batch of
coconut 50%
canola 25%
sunflower 15%
cocobutter 10%

what do you think?

 

[penelopejane]

canola,corn, vegetable, & soy oil should be used within a moderate usage rate. Or else DOS inviting. Especially in your weather.

And vegetable oil often is soy oil, or soy oil as a primary ingredient with cottonseed, canola,sunflower, or safflower oil and the like. And blend oil is a problem in soap.

Adding avocado puree can make a creamy, luxurious soap even you don't have access to avocado oil. Just remember to Check how much puree is too much, or it will grow mold. I think it's a tablespoon per pound of oils? I can be wrong, so please correct me if I am wrong.

The reason "vegetable oil" is a problem in soap is because you can't work out a SAP value for it so you can't calculate how much NaOH to use.

You can use as much vegetable matter in your soap as you like as long as it replaces the water required in the recipe.

If you use the easy split method mix your NaOH with the same weight in water say the recipe requires 200g water (100g NaOH + 100g water) then add 100g puréed avocado to the oils and SB well before adding cooled lye.

For things like pumpkin - steam until soft then purée then gently cook it until it is quite dry before adding it to oils and SB.

I have soap 2 years old and no DOS.
To avoid DOS you also need to avoid metal (implements and shelves) and have fresh oils and be really hygienic when moving the soap around (clean hands or gloves).

 

[cherrycoke216]

You can use as much vegetable matter in your soap as you like as long as it replaces the water required in the recipe.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=633262
Irish Lass said it better than me.

"Just how much puree to add will depend on personal preference. A safe place to start is 1 ounce per pound of soap.*Adding too much puree can throw off the balance of lye and oils. Worst case scenario, adding too much puree could cause mold and bacteria growth in the soap. If you’re worried about this, stick with a lower usage rate."

above is straight quoting Soap Queen Ann Marie from here.
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...ricks/how-to-add-purees-to-cold-process-soap/


http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=60041
see post #1,#2, and#15
though it's more about sugar content on post #1,#2, but most puree will add more sugar to the party.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=61207

see post #5,#6,#7,#8,#9,#10,and #11


http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=64994
see post #14,#15,#16

 

[Tamijean]

Wow, thanks for such detailed answers!

 

[penelopejane]

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=633262
Irish Lass said it better than me.

"Just how much puree to add will depend on personal preference. A safe place to start is 1 ounce per pound of soap.*Adding too much puree can throw off the balance of lye and oils. Worst case scenario, adding too much puree could cause mold and bacteria growth in the soap. If you’re worried about this, stick with a lower usage rate."

Sorry, Cherrycoke, I do not agree as in my experience (much more limited than Irish Lass's I must admit) it has not been the case.
As long as your puree replaces part of the water required in the recipe it will not cause problems.