Using citric acid?

[DeeAnna]

Fata Morgana -- Your answer is in Post 9. To recap:

Carabou said:
I will restate a 2-part formula I had found back then that gives the ratios simply and clearly:
10 g citric acid for every 1,000 g oils
6 g extra lye for every 10 g citric acid

Obsidian confirmed:
Thats the same formula I use...

 

[Soap Techniques]

Thank you, DeeAnna! That means 1% of citric acid.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep, that is correct.

 

[Dahila]

1% of CA and 0.6 % of extra lye? Is that correct?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

1% of CA and 0.6 % of extra lye? Is that correct?

I think it is safer to work out the amount (grams) of CA needed at 1% and then the amount (grams) of the chosen lye (NaOH or KOH) needed to make up for it.

So I make a 750gram batch (oil weight) which means I need 7.5grams CA, which means I need 4.5grams of extra NaOH.

Increasing our recipe lye amount by a set % does not work, as that lye amount is based on the SAP values of our oils, nothing to do with the CA. If we have a recipe that needs more lye than another recipe and increase both by a set %, we will have different amounts of extra lye even though we use the same amount of CA.

 

[DeeAnna]

^^^ I second what The Gent so nicely explained.

 

[penelopejane]

^^^Yep, dissolve the CA in your water first, and then add the lye.

I will restate a 2-part formula I had found back then that gives the ratios simply and clearly:
10 g citric acid for every 1,000 g oils
6 g extra lye for every 10 g citric acid

Hi

I am sorry to resurrect an old post but I don't want to rehash anything if I can help it but I just can't get this.

Can you please tell me if CA helps with the hardness of soap?
Is it only to reduce the soap scum if you have hard water or will it help in any situation?

Thank you.

 

[cmzaha]

This is used as a chelating agent. Here is what I do, I times my full batch weight, not just oil weight by 2.5% the resulting number gives you how much citric acid you need. Take that number and multiply it by 0.624 this will result in how much extra lye you need to add to neutralize the citric acid which results in Sodium Citrate. Where I live we have hard water and this works well for me. This is used to bind the minerals in the bath/shower water and wash them down the drain. It will not stop all soap scum but it does help and my soap lathers better. You can start out with using only 1% instead of my 2.5% and see how it works after curing. I forgot to mention I do not add this to my lye solution. I take out enough water from by needed liquid to dissolve the citric acid and dump it into my oils.

 

[CaraBou]

Penelope, in my opinion CA does not help with hardness. In fact I have found that if you use too much (2-3% of oils, off the top of my head) it can soften the soap. I've had two batches that I can find nothing else to blame for those troubles. But CA can help with lather, so between that and scum, it may be worth using, especially if restrained to around 1 or 1.5%.

For hardening bars, I recommend using more oils that are hard at room temp (lard, tallow, palm, etc) and allowing a lengthy cure. If you're devoted to soft oils then consider adding salt or sodium lactate.

 

[penelopejane]

Penelope, in my opinion CA does not help with hardness. In fact I have found that if you use too much (2-3% of oils, off the top of my head) it can soften the soap. I've had two batches that I can find nothing else to blame for those troubles. But CA can help with lather, so between that and scum, it may be worth using, especially if restrained to around 1 or 1.5%.

For hardening bars, I recommend using more oils that are hard at room temp (lard, tallow, palm, etc) and allowing a lengthy cure. If you're devoted to soft oils then consider adding salt or sodium lactate.

Thanks Carabou and cmzaha I think I might just use salt. I didn't really understand what CA was for.
I let my dh use my 100% OO soap made with salt for the first time this week and he loved it. He said put salt in all his soaps from now on. Not quite sure if he liked the hardness or the antibacterial qualities.

 

[Savonette]

lard and CA

I love my lard-y bars and loathe the scum so I've been looking at the CA angle for a while now. I think I found a cheater way of calculating the lye since the (1%pkgo=CA)*.65=+NaOH is just not something I can handle. Here's my cheat. I decrease my preferred (5%) SF by 4.5% in the SoapCalc. I was worried that the CA% should be changed according to how much lard I use, but I see people referring to soap scum in general - not just lard scum - so I'm keeping it simple.

 

[Kamahido]

I use Sodium Citrate so as to forgo the additional math.

Or you could make Sodium Citrate using galaxyMLP's method described following this link...

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55723

 

[penelopejane]

I am using CA now. Haven't made enough batches to be able to compare against the same recipe yet.

I do find though that I can't mix it with lye. I reserve some water to mix colours and to mix the CA etc. I add it to the oils, mix with a SB and then add the lye. This works much better for me as I like my lye to be clear.