Superfat percentage in different countries.

[Dennis Marquez]

Hello everyone!

I''ve been looking through lots of American and UK Soap tutorials on YouTube, and made some batches of soap myself.
I live in Germany, but I'm from the Netherlands. Recently I've joined some german Facebook soap making groups ,which brings me to my thread title.
The general consensus in Germany for superfatting soap, seems to be (and I'm not kidding), between 12 and 15% (some ever prefer 20%). Now these are not just some people, I'm talking most, and the groups are big! I'm also not talking about pure coconut oil soaps, I'm talking any soaps. Another thing I've noticed, is that castor oil is used at 10-15% here most of the time, not the 5% which I read in most english language recipes.
These are people who also have years of experience and some of them sell soap professionally which makes me believe the soaps are just fine. They also don't go bad any sooner.
I've asked there as well, how it comes that they superfat so much higher than for example the USA. I thought maybe it has to do with the water there or I don't know...
It just seems to be preference however. People here would consider an 8% Superfat quite a low amount of superfatting. I think it's quite interesting how it can differ in some countries. I've made some batches recently, and went with about 10-12% Superfat, and I'm quite curious how my soaps are going to turn out in a couple of weeks.
Any of you guys prefer a higher superfat?

 

[shunt2011]

Nope, I keep mine anywhere between 3-6% With 1 exception and that's my salt soap at 18-20%. I found a higher SF tended to make my soap softer, and more of a tendency for rancidity. I've been making soap since 2009 or 2010. I've been selling for 8 years. I've tested and reformulated many times until I found what works for me and what my customers like. And thanks to advice I found from really long term experienced soapers here on the forum.

I should add that when I started I was doing 7-10%.

 

[gloopygloop]

I am in the UK and have been making soap for about 20 years. I started out with SF at about 5% then increased to 8% & 10% which is when it gave me DOS. I also needed to up the CO to increase the lather. I soon changed of course and now my maximum is 5% and much more often 3%, I also found my soaps were softer with higher SF. I learned from practical experience not reading that high SF was not a magic with transformed the skin, it just decreased the cleansing ability of the soap which of course makes sense. If you wash your hand and note the lather of your soap, then slather moisturiser or oil on your hands and wash them again with the same soap you will notice a change in the amount of lather which is produced on the second oiled wash. If the high SF works for people thats great, it didn't work for me as much as I would have loved it to.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks for sharing the information. Superfat is a tricky variable in the soap making world because it depends on lye purity. I superfat at 2-3% without correcting for lye purity, which according to the manufacturer is 96-98% pure, but generally closer to 98%. That could mean my SF is as high as 7% if my lye purity is on the low side. Have you come across any discussions of lye purity on the German or other sites? Are you reading anything about the use of ROE, or citric acid or other chelators to prevent DOS? I don’t read German, but have worked through some webpages using Google translate. Some of the German makers are producing really beautiful soaps and from what I can tell, they don’t shy away from luxury oils like pistachio and macadamia nut, which I think of as short-lived oils.

 

[Obsidian]

I started out using 8-10% sf but eventually settled on 5% when I realized the high sf did nothing to improve the soap. I did 20% once with a regular recipe, was a awful oily soap that I threw away.

I've used castor at 5-20% with no issues. I've changed my base recipe to 10% as it really does improve the bubbles.

When I first started soaping, 10% was the recommended amount. Not sure when or why is went down to 5%

Are the recipes in your country similar to the ones here with a balance of hard and soft oils?

 

[Dennis Marquez]

I started out using 8-10% sf but eventually settled on 5% when I realized the high sf did nothing to improve the soap. I did 20% once with a regular recipe, was a awful oily soap that I threw away.

I've used castor at 5-20% with no issues. I've changed my base recipe to 10% as it really does improve the bubbles.

When I first started soaping, 10% was the recommended amount. Not sure when or why is went down to 5%

Are the recipes in your country similar to the ones here with a balance of hard and soft oils?

Thanks for the input! Yeah I’d never go as high as 20%. I’ve actually gotten some homemade soap as a tester with a purchase I made here in Germany, and it was superfatted at 8% and it’s lovely. I think I’ll stick to that area for now.
Also planning on using castor oil at 10% for my next recipe!

Thanks for sharing the information. Superfat is a tricky variable in the soap making world because it depends on lye purity. I superfat at 2-3% without correcting for lye purity, which according to the manufacturer is 96-98% pure, but generally closer to 98%. That could mean my SF is as high as 7% if my lye purity is on the low side. Have you come across any discussions of lye purity on the German or other sites? Are you reading anything about the use of ROE, or citric acid or other chelators to prevent DOS? I don’t read German, but have worked through some webpages using Google translate. Some of the German makers are producing really beautiful soaps and from what I can tell, they don’t shy away from luxury oils like pistachio and macadamia nut, which I think of as short-lived oils.

Thanks for the reply! Interesting, and makes perfect sense! Most of the lye you can buy here is advertised as 99% or 99.5% purity.
haven’t read any discussions on this topic so far though!
Yeah a lot of special oils are used here! Also people love to use camel milk, sheep milk and goat’s milk. Pistachio oil is often quite cheap at Lidl (a cheap supermarket) here.

 

[DeeAnna]

I think you also have to consider that soap making has its fads, with superfat amounts being no different than any other ingredient a soaper can play with. If a big-name soap maker touts a 12% superfat (or whatever %), you can bet others will soon follow suit.

When I first participated here on SMF, many people talked about using fairly high superfat amounts. It was almost a heresy to admit to superfatting under 5%, and many were superfatting in the 7-12% range. And if you look at soap making sites other than SMF, you'll see that higher superfats are still fairly common.

I'd say a low superfat -- under 5% -- is still very much the exception than the rule.

edit -- And I agree with Mobjack Bay's comments about the effects of NaOH purity.

In the end, whatever works for you and what makes you happy is what you should do.

 

[IrishLass]

In the end, whatever works for you and what makes you happy is what you should do.

Ditto 100%^^^^. There's no "one-size-fits-all" rule when it comes to superfatting. So much depends on one's skin-type, and/or personal preference, and/or whether you live in a dry or humid climate, etc., etc.... Since such things can vary drastically from person to person, you just have to experiment and go with what works for you and yours.

My own superfats vary depending on what particular formula I'm making. For example, I use an 8% superfat in my tallow/lard formula, 8% in my shaving soap formula, 5% in my 50% olive oil formula, 13% in my salt soap, 20% in my 100% coconut oil soap, 15% in my coconut oil/mango butter formula, and 3% in my milk soaps, etc....

I decide what % to superfat based on a handful of different variables, i.e., bubbly level of the lather, skin-feel, and overall hardness and longevity levels....... all of which need to come together and work in a synergistic manner that pleases my own personal likes, as well as the likes of my family.

For what it's worth, I use a high level of castor compared to many here on the forum. I use 20% in my shaving soap, I use 10.5% in my tallow/lard formula, I use 10% in my 50% olive oil formula, and in a formula that I make using a really high amount of tallow (65% tallow), I use 23% castor oil.


IrishLass

 

[Ale]

I've read of Kevin Dunn's method, in Scientific Soapmaking, where he states that even a 5% SF can be too much. He recommends a 1-2%, which indeed become higher if you consider the purity of your NaOH. Moreover, he uses the minimum SAP value of every fat, not the mean value as we usually do. So I think that his result will be around a REAL 5%.

 

[Shazzer]

Hi Dennis! I know this conversation is now a bit old, but wanted to join in even if late to the party. I'm canadian but live in Germany, and learned soap making from english recipes as well. When I joined the German facebook groups I was shocked!! Almost EVERYONE superfat at at LEAST 10%, with many going up to 30. There is a current discussion happening in one group about the fact they won't even buy from sellers who don't list their superfat, as they will never buy a soap with less than 18%?!?! Castor at 10-15% is also very often.... why?!

At the same time, I agree this seems to be a fad. A discussion about superfat without a discussion about the ingredients in the bar itself, and thinking this will be your cure to try skin, doesn't make sense. Not buying any soap with a superfat under 18% is in my opinion ridiculous; sounds like you should be using a moisturizing cream in that case, or looking for recipes without coconut oil or something. All I can say is I've noticed the same, but I can't say I've seen any great improvements in recipes with higher superfat vs. say the typical 5% - if anything, more drawbacks. And I think people sell it because it's being asked for, not necessarily because it's actually better.

 

[Babyshoes]

Interesting discussion! I recall reading that sellers here in the UK have to use at least 3% superfat, likely as a safety margin.

I don't like to go too high, as our old drains are prone to blocking up, and I fear that a high SF will put extra fats and oils down the drain. If I was selling and there was a demand for a higher SF, I'd probably follow demand...