My soap doesn't go right

[SoapyGoats]

Lately soap I make just doesn't want to work! It's either to cold, and gets a bit crumbly(it does this most often) or heats up to much and makes 'cave soap' with huge oil caves in the middle. Or it gets way to thick too soon!

It's SO frustrating! What should I do?

 

[pamielynn]

You'd probably have to post the recipe you're using and your process so we could walk through it with you. There's got to be a remedy!

 

[cmzaha]

Your "cave soap" is from overheating usually caused from you eo's or fo's. Although some base oils will overheat. Crumbly soap is usually lye heavy, but then soap being soap can go against all logic.

 

[judymoody]

From your site, I see that you sell goat's milk soap. What technique are you using to dissolve your lye?
The sugars in the milk can cause your soap batter to heat up unless you take special precautions.

I see that you use both EOs and FOs, are you experiencing these problems consistently with particular scents? Fragrance can effect how your soap turns out.

Also, I agree, posting your complete recipe, including soaping temperatures, will help to troubleshoot.

 

[SoapyGoats]

I dissolve the lye in cold, slushy Goat Milk.

My "starter" recipe is:
5oz Coconut Oil
10oz Olive Oil
7 oz Palm Oil

Then I add a couple other oils. So the following batch got extremely hot and is very crumbly.
1oz Castor Oil
2oz Cocoa Butter
5oz Coconut Oil
9oz Olive Oil
5oz Palm Oil

Oil Temp: 93*C
Lye/Milk Temp: 46*C
Trace Temp: Warmed up up 86*C ( It was originally cold and very thick)

Added:
6 tsp green and red clays
2 TSP Dentritic Salt
.5oz each of Rosemary, Lavender and Patchouli


Another batch is as follows. This one is slightly crumbly when cut.

2oz Almond Oil
5oz Coconut Oil
9oz Olive Oil
6oz Palm Oil

Oil Temp: 100*C
Lye/Milk Temp: 50*C
Trace look/temp: slightly grainy and 56*C

Added .6oz fragrance oil Warm Cider

I make up my own recipes, almost none are the same, is that not a good idea? And what's the best way to get great soaps?

Thanks!

 

[kazmi]

Are you sure about your temperatures? Maybe it's because I soap at room temp but those oil seem pretty high to me.

 

[judymoody]

How much lye are you using and what % superfat/lye discount? Also what is your proportion of lye to liquid in your lye solution?

 

[dagmar88]

Are you sure about your temperatures? Maybe it's because I soap at room temp but those oil seem pretty high to me.

Yes, I do think that's very hot, especially for goatsmilk soap.
Have you ever tried soaping at room temperature?

 

[SoapyGoats]

Superfat is 5% on all my soaps.

Starter recipe:
5%lye 3oz
7.2oz Gmilk


Hot/crumbly batch:
5%lye: 3oz
7.2oz Gmilk

Slightly crumbly when cut:
5%lye: 3.1oz
7.5oz Gmilk

How do I keep the temps down without it getting to old? I thought it all had to be warm(besides the milk) (?)
All the temps are how much it warms up on its own.

 

[dagmar88]

Don't you run your recipes through a soap calculator?

 

[judymoody]

I just ran your recipes through soapcalc and the lye amount comes out correctly.

However, I agree, your soaping temperatures are way too high, especially for milk soaps. Typically my oil temps are around 40-45 C and my lye solution is at around 35-40 C. If I'm using milk or beer, I will go slightly cooler. I'm not surprised you're having overheating issues.

Anne Watson has a couple of good books about milk soapmaking. You might want to check them out for more information.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Yes, I run them through Bramble Berry's calculator. How do I get the lye/milk to be cooler?

 

[dixiedragon]

Yes, I run them through Bramble Berry's calculator. How do I get the lye/milk to be cooler?

Holy smokes that is some hot soaping! I usually soap at around 100F, which is 37.7C. So you are soaping more than twice as hot as most of the recommended temps I have seen.

You get them cooler by letting them sit longer. I mix my water and lye first, and then set them aside. Then I melt my oils. This gives my oils time to cool a bit if they get too hot. I like my oils and my like between 100 and 110.

You may want to try running your recipes through this lye calculator:
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

I really like it b/c it will give you some ranges of values for hardness, conditioning, bubbles, etc.

I am wondering if you have been making soap long enough that you are trying to cut some corners? I notice that I will get over confident and not take temperatures like I should, or try to reduce the water. For me, it's always best to use close to the maximum amount of water (I use the calculator at Majestic Mountain Sage b/c it gives a range of water), and to make sure to take the temps. I always think the lye and the oils have cooled down more than the have.

Also, I am not a palm user, but I have read about this problem before - how big of a container did you get your palm oil in? Apparently palm oil will settle out, so the oil on the bottom has more of the palmitic acid, which is the component that allows palm oil to make soap harder. But it can also make soap brittle if you use too much.

So if your palm oil is in a large container, like a 5 gallon bucket, the top of the oil will have less palmitic acid than the bottom of the bucket. So if you don't mix the oil thoroughly each time, soap made from the palm oil at the bottom of the bucket will be harder and more brittle.

Soapers who use palm oil and who get it in large containers, such as 5 gallon buckets, say they melt it down, mix it thoroughly and divide into smaller containers to avoid that.

 

[SoapyGoats]

My palm oil is in 4lb plastic jars. I melt part of it for use every time. I've been making soap for a bit more then a year...at first I had no problems. What do you use instead of Palm Oil?
I thought you're supposed to use as little liquid as possible.

 

[dixiedragon]

Then I add a couple other oils. So the following batch got extremely hot and is very crumbly.
1oz Castor Oil
2oz Cocoa Butter
5oz Coconut Oil
9oz Olive Oil
5oz Palm Oil

Hot/crumbly batch:
5%lye: 3oz
7.2oz Gmilk

I ran that recipe through the calculator at the sage, and they recommend 6 to 8 oz of water, so your liquid is well within the safe range. However, I think when using milk you are supposed to use a bit more, but I'm not sure how that goes. Personally, I would use 8 oz of milk.

Also, you are making a very small batch, and any error you make is going to be much worse. If you make a 5 lb batch and accidentally add a little extra lye, you'll probably be okay. But in a batch that small, even a tiny amount of extra lye could make your soap lye heavy.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Thanks!

 

[whitetulips]

I am no expert at this, but my cp soaps and goat's milk cp soaps turn out and sell well. I always freeze my milk into cubes and add the lye to that. I use the same weight in milk cubes as the recipe calls for liquid to be added to lye. Make sure you stir until well blended. One time it had lye crystals in the bottom and I didn't realize it until I took the soap out of the mold. I had to throw it away. Now I always strain my lye-water mixture and try with the goat's milk slushy/paste. When I've mashed it all with a spoon and can tell there are no crystals, then I scoop it into the oils as well. It does kind of smell like ammonia, though, mixing the lye with milk. And it turns slightly green. These soaps are softer and hard to cut initially. I freeze it initially and then refrigerate. Not sure if I should cut the bars while still frozen.

 

[whitetulips]

You could also set your lye pitcher in a bucket of ice to cool it down.

 

[cmzaha]

Horrors...I put mine in the freezer to cool my lye if I have run out of my premade and need to cool down lye. No kids and hubby is well aware of what it is plus there are big red x's on the pitcher

 

[grayceworks]

My palm oil is in 4lb plastic jars. I melt part of it for use every time. I've been making soap for a bit more then a year...at first I had no problems. What do you use instead of Palm Oil?
I thought you're supposed to use as little liquid as possible.

Are you getting towards the bottom of the jar?