Hot Process-Experienced input needed.

[welder]

Hello Everyone.

I am new to soapmaking and although I've got my basic supplies together, I haven't actually tried making any soap yet.

This is because I'm trying to choose between using the cold process or the hot process.

I posted about this issue once already, but for some reason, the post dissapeared and I can't find it on any of this sites' forum menus.

Anyway, I want input from anyone here who has experience with the hot process.

I have read that the hot process is faster than the cold process, but a local soaper supply store employee told me that the hot process often produces bars that are bubbly and twisted from random pockets of shrinkage.

Has anyone here with hot process experience ever noticed oddly misshapen bars, or bars with bubbles in them?

The other thing I was told was that hot process bars are dry and crubly (as in brittle). Anyone know if this is true?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Chay]

HP soap will not be as smooth as CP becasue it is much thicker when you put it in the mold. The process of HP does not cause soap to become brittle, the soaper who told you this needs to check his/her recipe and/or technique.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[carebear]

After you pour (glop) your HP in the mold, if you then scrape the sides of the pot and try to add that to the mold those bits probably won't stick and instead will flake off, or even fall off in chunks.

HP soap can be dry and brittle if you over cook it or don't use enough water when you make it. Over use of sodium lactate can also do that though it'll pour more easily.

Misshapen? Air pockets? Because it doesn't "pour" like CP so you tend to get a rougher finish - if you have to cram it in the mold it's not going to be pretty. Some can make beautifully smooth bars though.

You have to balance the water you use - too much and you can get weird shrinkage, too little and you get dry, brittle soap that you cannot get into the mold and it falls apart.

*I* cannot accomplish the look I love with HP. Some can make beautiful bars but I don't have the knack. BUT the method is more forgiving in a way because your soap cannot seize.

CP pours smoothly (if all goes well).

 

[welder]

Much thanks to Chay and Carebear for filling in some details.

It looks like good consistent quality soap can be hot batched if some proper care is exersized.

Water looks like a ballancing act, too little producing brittleness and too too much causing warpage.

Due to the relationship between water and cooking times, I'm thinking that overcooking the mix might yeild results similar to not having added enough water at the start. Does this sound reasonable?

 

[Strawberry0121]

I am a serious newbie, having only done one batch of soap as of yet. However, from what I have read, it would be best to start with CP to learn about the process and different types of oils and their reactions, etc with the soap making process.

I am excited to be making more soap on Friday. The friend that I have started doing this with wants to try HP then. She wants to make "clear" soaps that can go into small molds. I want to make more CP soaps first. So, I guess we will be doing both then.

 

[carebear]

Due to the relationship between water and cooking times, I'm thinking that overcooking the mix might yeild results similar to not having added enough water at the start. Does this sound reasonable?

absolutely yes.

 

[carebear]

I am a serious newbie, having only done one batch of soap as of yet. However, from what I have read, it would be best to start with CP to learn about the process and different types of oils and their reactions, etc with the soap making process.

Actually I think the opposite

Well either kind of soap will give you the same information about the different types of oils and all, but with HP you interact with the soap much more closely and really see the stages and watch the reaction take place whereas with CP it happens under the lid/blanket. For learning I think HP takes the prize - and it's where I started (and soon abandoned, I admit)

 

[welder]

*I* cannot accomplish the look I love with HP. Some can make beautiful bars but I don't have the knack. BUT the method is more forgiving in a way because your soap cannot seize.

Hi Carebear.

Now you've really got me curious about something:

What do you mean by "your soap cannot seize"?

Can cold process soap actually seize up?

I've never heard of that before, and I'm generally concerned about potential problems that I'm unaware of because I don't want to be cought in a jam and be ignorant of what's actually happening or how to remedy it.

I know that you mentioned that using the hot process avoids the chance of soap seizure, but I'd still like to understand the event in case I ever try CP.

If you abandoned HP for CP, I may likely also follow that path. I'd like to be able to avoid soap seizure.

If you have a simple explanation of what soap seizure is and how to avoid it, I'd be very grateful for the heads up.

Thanks!

 

[ChrissyB]

I have had a few batches seize on me. This normally happens when you have gotten your soap batter to trace, and then add your (usually )fragrant oils, and within a minute or two, your whole mix has become a solid gelatinous hard to manipulate gloop. You have to work really really quick to glop it into the moulds, and you don't get the smooth lovely look that you would get if you were to pour your batter in the moulds. There is also the risk that the soap will have air bubbles in it because of the way it goes in the mould, it is really really hard to do anything with.
Seizing, in my experience, is usually attributed to fragrance oils. Most reputable soap suppliers will give information re: their fo/s and if they seize or accellerate trace.

 

[carebear]

seizing is fun in a weird science kind of way. it goes from liquid to solid in a split second and you can't even get your spoon out! I"m not talking gelatenous mass - I'm talking there's a huge freaking solid bar of soap stuck to your spoon the exact shape of your soap bowl.

yes, it's usually because of your fragrance oil. I usually add my FO to the oils before I add the lye, so what I see is: stir, stir, stir, ****. Then I run and get my crockpot, lift the entire mass with the spoon that is embedded in the soap, and drop it into the crockpot. then I chop at the edgest that stick out with a knife or spatula to fit the whole mess in the crockpot and proceed with HPing the soap.

Some swear you can stop a seize in its tracks by adding ice cold water. Never worked for me. Some also say that you can just leave it in the bowl and it'll heat up and go through gel in a few minutes and be soft enough to cram into the mold. I've never waited to see tho this makes some sense.

Some also swear that adding your FO to your oils will prevent this. While it may reduce the likelihood somewhat, I'm living proof (just last week) that it doesn't prevent it.

I'd also like to point out that the FO that seized on me was listed on the Scent Review Board as being well behaved. Be advised that vendors DO change formulations without telling us, especially now in the fury of the phthalate-free push.

BTW, it happens to me infrequently - this is the first time I've been surprised in a while. But if you are experimenting a lot with temperatures, recipes, and new FOs it will happen more often. I promise.

 

[welder]

Okay then, what if I completely avoid adding EOs/EOs ???

Are they the culprit?

Are there any other known causes?

 

[ChrissyB]

Carebear:,
I tried the trick of adding my eo to my oils before the lye, and guess what, it still seized on me.. Within about 30 seconds I couldn't get my wisk out, i had to cut it out and then cut the gloop out of the wisk. I hate seizes, I am at the stage of totally abandoning scenting my soap because I have had a few bad experiences. The thought did cross my mind that if it has seized then going through with HP would semi save the batch, I am going to take your advice and try that next time. By the way, the scent that seized on me is Ylang Ylang ESSENTIAL Oil, and I even took some batter out at trace, added the eo and waited a few minutes just to make sure it didn't seize, and it didn't, but alas when I added it to my main mix it did. Can't figure that out. Also letting it sit and heat up does make sense, will write these down in my book and in the unfortunate but likely event that it happens again I will try them out! Thanks.

 

[carebear]

Chrissy, where did you get your Ylang? I soap with that quite often without difficulty - so I'm wondering if maybe yours isn't diluted with something. Alcohols are Trouble with a capitol T.


Also, what temps are you soaping at? With most recipes keep it to 80F (both parts) or so. UNLESS your formula is 75% hard oils or more in which case keep it to 110 or 115.

Ylang is too expensive to mess around with much though, so I know your pain.

If you tell me what you like I may be able to suggest some FOs or EOs that work really well for me.

 

[kellistarr]

I'm relatively new to soaping, though I've already made about 7 batches of soap, 2 of them being Hp soap. I enjoy doing both methods. I haven't experienced the "seize" yet, and it sounds terrifying. I have only used EO's but plan on trying Fo's this coming week.

I would suggest experimenting with both methods, using small batches and no FO's or Eo's (or use very little) so that you can understand each process and then decide which technique is for you.

 

[welder]

I would suggest experimenting with both methods, using small batches and no FO's or Eo's (or use very little) so that you can understand each process and then decide which technique is for you.

Well, I'm actually only doing some hands-on research for starting up a soap business in Africa (my wife is from Ghana).