Has anyone else read this article?

[gigisiguenza]

That's an excellent idea. I'll probably need to get rid of the lye I have at home now (or just use strictly for drain cleaner!) because of the humidity. If they're OK, I'll put them in the heavy duty black trash bags. My bottles are 10# each. I went through 2# so fast, I thought I'd get the larger size. I'm not using the "bulk" lye as fast as I thought I would.

I know they make gigantor Ziploc bags, if I can find a link I'll share. I dunno if a trash bag would seal well enough. Let me know if it works please

10#?? Good grief I thought I was living dangerously buying 2 whole pounds at a time LOL. Now I'm kicking myself for not investing in the buy 5 get 1 free when I originally ordered and had the extra cash.

 

[gigisiguenza]

I bought a 5 gallon bucket and a gamma seal lid. I put my lye in the bucket with a tub of damp-rid Works really well.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FNSUS6U/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0029EGUNG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I never would have thought about a bucket and damp rid. That's brilliant. Now t learn what a gamma seal bucket is LOL

 

[kchaystack]

I never would have thought about a bucket and damp rid. That's brilliant. Now t learn what a gamma seal bucket is LOL

Gamma seal is a lid for the bucket. There is a ring that snaps on to the rim of the bucket, and then a piece that screws on that fits in the ring. It is designed to keep most of the air out of large buckets of paint.

 

[gigisiguenza]

Gamma seal is a lid for the bucket. There is a ring that snaps on to the rim of the bucket, and then a piece that screws on that fits in the ring. It is designed to keep most of the air out of large buckets of paint.

Ooooo I've seen those many times. Had no idea they were called that. TY

 

[TeresaT]

I'M GETTIN' THE ORANGE ONE!!! Wahoo!!!

Uh, sorry about that display of excitement. Doesn't take much to make me happy, does it?

 

[gigisiguenza]

I'M GETTIN' THE ORANGE ONE!!! Wahoo!!!

Uh, sorry about that display of excitement. Doesn't take much to make me happy, does it?

Hahahahahahaha the orange what??

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Totally disagree. He wasn't buying EOs out of somebody's trunk in a sketchy neighborhood. He bought EOs from a well-known company that claimed it tested the EOs it sold. ED is absolutely to blame for (morally speaking, I can't speak to legal) about the damage done to this guy's business b/c of their shady practices.

Absolutely - but HE based HIS reputation on that trust. ED apparently lied, but bear in mind that he was buying these to resell rather than use, so to blindly believe marketing is one thing, but when you are reselling.....?

While testing each and every batch would be cost prohibitive for him, did he contact ED about their claims before he used them as a supplier? Did he ask for some verification of these claims? Did he visit his potential supplier to see this in action?

No.

At the very least, if you are reselling something that YOU are claiming is something based purely on the claims of others, test a random sample occasionally.

Again, while the supplier is fully at fault for lying and knowingly selling bad oils, you should never base your reputation on unverified claims of another.

 

[Dharlee]

Phooey. Well this is what I get for trying to save money. I ordered several EOs from them, but now I am afraid to use them. 80.00 down the drain. I also got my Tallow from them. I have used it and it seems fine, but I honestly I don't know what to do about that now either.

I should have known better than to order from them. I called to find out about usages for the EOs and after I finally got them to answer the phone- (took me two days of calling) they didn't know. I thought, OKAY I will just get that information on the IFRA site, but I certainly should have thought more of it.

I shouldn't complain, not really. It could be so much worse. I feel bad for that guy.

 

[Susie]

Its 2 am here, but I won't believe anything until I follow back (after more sleep) whoever this Dr. Pappas is, and figure out what he has to gain by saying ED's EOs are bad. I smell rotten fish right now, with Earth's Love now selling DoTerra. It just stinks, folks. As they say, follow the money. And with DoTerra recently being spanked by the FDA, this doubly stinks.

 

[jade-15]

It also seems off to me... But perhaps that is just the way it's written, and my cynical nature?
I tried to find a chromatogram of frankincense to compare, and what I found after a quick google search looked incredibly different... I might spend more time investigating (googling) in the morning.

I read through the emails and it seems like pretty poor customer service. Although his first email was pretty unclear (to me, anyway), being "reassured" that their oils are 100% pure is of little comfort without some sort of evidence.
He does seem to have mis interpreted... He claims "You will notice in the second image it states that they test all their oils not once, not twice, but 3 times." But what I read said "typically" they are QCd three times... Which I don't interpret as every oil, every time at every stage. Just some (or most or a %).
Similarly, I can't see any issue with them having previously sent testing to a lab off-site in the past, but now deciding to build their own lab... To be honest, I would trust results from an independent lab over on-site any day :-|
Interesting the other companies didn't want to send to Dr. Pappas without getting their own tests done first... (If I have read this correctly). Do they not trust their product or Dr. P?

Also... Surely having an article saying "do not buy from this FRAUDULENt company" could land someone in legal trouble for defamation?? One thing to list the facts (these two oils were tested... Not what they're meant to be... Got them from ED) but the article goes a lot further? (I'm not a lawyer though...)

I don't sell, so I wonder if insured sellers can answer this question... Can insurance cover this type of thing? Or do they put the onus on the supplier?
I'm sleepy, so I hope my rants make some sense haha.

 

[Susie]

This Dr. Pappas works for DoTerra. I would not believe a single thing anyone associated with that company says. This is apparently their new campaign, since claiming their EOs cured EVERYTHING, and getting spanked by the FDA did not work, they are going to besmirch the reputation of other EO suppliers.

jade-15, you label your products with what you buy from other companies already. How do you "know" the lard is pure lard? You trust the company that made it and supplied it. Same goes for EOs.

 

[jade-15]

jade-15, you label your products with what you buy from other companies already. How do you "know" the lard is pure lard? You trust the company that made it and supplied it. Same goes for EOs.

Susie, is this in response to my last question about insurance? Or something else I've said? Yes, if you buy lard, EO, soap, chocolate... Anything... It should be what you've bought - completely agree with you. (I'm just trying to work out what I've written that may make it seem like I don't!)
My last question i dont seem to be able to explain right now. But by "supplier" I meant ED, in this situation.

 

[galaxyMLP]

This Dr. Pappas works for DoTerra. I would not believe a single thing anyone associated with that company says. This is apparently their new campaign, since claiming their EOs cured EVERYTHING, and getting spanked by the FDA did not work, they are going to besmirch the reputation of other EO suppliers.

jade-15, you label your products with what you buy from other companies already. How do you "know" the lard is pure lard? You trust the company that made it and supplied it. Same goes for EOs.

Susie, ha! I knew it. Ive been typing this up since yesterday:

I don't think he's being truthful. There are some red flags. I have a feeling this is an attempt to make companies selling EOs labeled as "theraputic grade" (other than DoTerra) look bad and discredit them. There are a few reasons why.

1: look at the companies he's going to be reviewing. They include ED, BA and WFmed. Both ED and BA claim to have theraputic grade EOs. WFmed says that theraputic grade EOs don't exist and pretty much discredits and exposes Young living (and thus DoTerra) while talking about it.

2. He uses FB posts and communication to explain what he did when contacting the company, ect. He doesn't include screenshots of real emails. That's shady in every way. He also mentions talking to this "Dr. Pappas" over FB messenger. No reputable chemist or Dr would discuss results like that over FB.

Plus, he says he first heard of the results on FB?? That's unheard of. That would never happen.

3. I think those GC/MSs are fake! You'd know if your "frankincense" was 26% camphene! That stuff is soooo strong. It would almost smell like lemony camphor-y oil with what they put down. No way. Sorry. It would smell totally fake. Plus, DEP (diethylphthalate) is usually used at a MUCH higher percent. Not at <1%. Ive seen it used at around 10-72%.

ETA: I re-read the chromatogram and realised that DEP was at 4% I was going from memory and got it mixed up with benzyl benzoate. Oops.

 

[Susie]

I don't sell, so I wonder if insured sellers can answer this question... Can insurance cover this type of thing? Or do they put the onus on the supplier?
I'm sleepy, so I hope my rants make some sense haha.

My previous answer was in response to this. I seem to have misunderstood the question. My apologies.

I knew there was something wrong with this whole thing as soon as I saw it was on FB. Then I simply Googled Dr. Pappas, and "Dr. Pappas Essential Oils" came up, with an immediate tie to DoTerra. I "followed the money" to track back where he gets funding for all that research, and guess who employs him...

I must apologize to anyone on this forum that sells DoTerra. I am not accusing you of being dishonest. Just the company you sell for. But, like my Daddy used to say, you are known for the company you keep. So, while I am sincerely sorry for offending you with my comments, I have nothing positive to say about DoTerra.

 

[dixiedragon]

I live in Alabama, also have humidity issues! I buy my lye in 50# bags. I have a bunch of 1 gallon mayo jars saved from a restaurant. I distribute the lye into these jars and seal the jars shut with duct tape. My lye lasted 5+ years in the basement this way.

 

[dixiedragon]

Absolutely - but HE based HIS reputation on that trust. ED apparently lied, but bear in mind that he was buying these to resell rather than use, so to blindly believe marketing is one thing, but when you are reselling.....?

While testing each and every batch would be cost prohibitive for him, did he contact ED about their claims before he used them as a supplier? Did he ask for some verification of these claims? Did he visit his potential supplier to see this in action?

No.

At the very least, if you are reselling something that YOU are claiming is something based purely on the claims of others, test a random sample occasionally.

Again, while the supplier is fully at fault for lying and knowingly selling bad oils, you should never base your reputation on unverified claims of another.

That's simply not feasible for a small business owner. My dad doesn't go visit each of his suppliers. He's busy running his business. I doubt ANY small business person has the time and means to visit EACH of their suppliers to make sure they're doing what they say they're doing. The responsibility is on ED for out-right lying to this writer and to all of their other customers. I don't know if he asked to see documentation. But would that have helped? He decides he'd like to do business with ED, he asks for proof of these tests, they provide it...yay! Then a few years down the road, ED stops doing the tests.

He chose to base his business reputation on ED's claims. If I have a nut allergy and I buy products that are nut-free, I'm choosing to trust my health to that company's claims. If I get sick b/c of nuts because they LIED about it, am I at fault b/c I didn't go inspect their factory? Because I didn't demand proof of nut-free-ness each time I bought their bread?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That's simply not feasible for a small business owner. My dad doesn't go visit each of his suppliers. He's busy running his business. I doubt ANY small business person has the time and means to visit EACH of their suppliers to make sure they're doing what they say they're doing. The responsibility is on ED for out-right lying to this writer and to all of their other customers. I don't know if he asked to see documentation. But would that have helped? He decides he'd like to do business with ED, he asks for proof of these tests, they provide it...yay! Then a few years down the road, ED stops doing the tests.

He chose to base his business reputation on ED's claims. If I have a nut allergy and I buy products that are nut-free, I'm choosing to trust my health to that company's claims. If I get sick b/c of nuts because they LIED about it, am I at fault b/c I didn't go inspect their factory? Because I didn't demand proof of nut-free-ness each time I bought their bread?

No - but if you decide to resell it, so you are the one then telling people it is nut-free, you're basing your reputation on just a promise, which is bad business.

As a consumer, even if that business is a consumer, it is one thing. But a reseller is in a different position. If I am a mechanic and I buy and use a wrench rated for a certain torque, I have to trust that it is so but will soon find out if it isn't. If I am just a reseller, I am telling MY customers that it is good to use at a certain torque. If I am doing that, I will certainly make sure I do some more due diligence than if I am just using it myself.

As a reseller, his business ARE these products. The quality of them is very much part of his responsibility.

Is it right that he should have to do it? Not at all, a supplier should be honest.

Was he foolish to not do enough checking? Clearly.

 

[hmlove1218]

I'm just curious, let's apply this to this forum. We have many business people here who sell soaps only scented with EOs. They're trusting their supplier to sell them pure EOs, so if it comes back that the supplier is passing off adulterated or completely synthetic fragrances as pure EOs, would you blame the soaper? Is it the soapers responsibility to test the EOs they use in their soap?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Yes - yes it is.

Should they HAVE to do so? No, not all. But are they ultimately responsible? Of course they are. If they have done everything reasonably possible in way of due diligence, they are not to "blame". But if they just take a supplier at their word that is their choice to do so. They owe it to theirs customers to do what they can (within reason) to make sure that the product is what they claim it is.

Again, we shouldn't HAVE to do this. But this is the real world, not some hugathon.

A while back in the UK (and I think other parts of Europe) there was a scandal where horse meat was being sold as beef. Now, the supplier had falsely labelled the packets and the supermarkets had taken that at face value. As it turns out, they could have done more to check, but this super cheap eastern European beef was too good to ignore. As the supermarkets sold it on to their customers as beef, they are responsible to their customers, not the supplier. The supermarkets have to go to the supplier for answers and claims, the customers go to the supermarket.

If a soaper is selling soap, they need to do all that they can to make sure that what they are selling is what they think it is, as they are answerable to their customers. No matter what the cause of the issue, the seller answers to their customers.

 

[dixiedragon]

I still disagree. Does the grocery store inspect the factory of every single product in their store that claims to be nut free or gluten free or vegan? No, it's simply not feasible. This man was not foolish, wrong or crazy to trust the published promises of a long-standing and well known company.