Goat Milk Lard Soap question with pics

[srez]

Hi all,

I've been on the goat milk / lard kick for a bit and the wife and I really like it. I originally made some smaller batches and they looked fine.

I also made regular goat milk NO lard and they look fine... As WELL As straight up lard and they look fine.

I then made a larger batch of goat milk WITH lard, 17 bars per loaf, and they look like this....

The regular goat milk bars look like this...

I made them both (goat milk WITH and WITHOUT lard) the same way. Goat milk frozen cubes, temps (oils, butters, lye solution) stayed in the 70's 80's degrees fahrenheit, then placed in the fridge and cut at about 20 hours.

It only seems to be with the lard that this "chalkiness, frostiness" is happening to.

Has anyone else come across this and what chemical reaction is going on here?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[lsg]

I always pop my milk soaps in the freezer as soon as they are in the mold. I leave them there for 2-3 days to prevent gelling. Gelling can cause milk soaps to change colors from beige to brown.

 

[srez]

Hi @lsg Good to know. Thank you. I might try that next as well.
Have you noticed with your milk soaps that after the 20 or 24-hour mark they are hard as a rock to cut to almost to the point of being brittle?
With these soaps I use 100% goat milk in place of water.

 

[lsg]

No, what percentages of hard oils/fats are you using in your soap?

 

[Ford]

They got to hot . Been there, done that. I watch mine like a hawk. I gell, when they get to where I want. I put a fan on them. Mine are ready to cut 18 - 20 hours.
Here is a 100% Lard. Not paying attention. It over heated, I missed my cutting window. How many mistakes can one make. They did clean up well.

 

[srez]

Thanks @Ford . Guess I'll try the freezer instead of the fridge for the next go around.

Funny thing is when I do the regular goat milk in the fridge they come out fine.

The lard bar I do is either a 50 or 60% with 10% coconut and the remainder olive oil and those come out fine as well. Even after 20 hours or so NOT being in the fridge. And they cut easy.

For whatever reason the goat milk with lard did that chalky, flaky type thing on the surface.

I don't have a beveler like you, but might just try using a pastry knife to do a quick little scrape and see if that makes a difference.

 

[dmcgee5034]

@srez - what lye concentration are you using? Is this chalkiness on all the bars? Is it on freshly cut bars?

 

[srez]

Hi @dmcgee5034 it's on all the gm lard bars.
I'm doing 40% lye concentration and 3% sf.

Regular lard is fine as well as the regular goat milk. It's just when I combined them together is when this happened.

They are about 5 weeks old. It wasn't too bed at first cut but as time progressed, they turned more.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

It looks like soda ash to me. The chalkiness wasn’t there when you cut the bars? Something besides the lard could have been different. Do you gel your soap? If not, the soap may have continued to saponify after cutting.

Have you tried spritzing one bar with water or alcohol and wiping it down? Or even washing it under the faucet and letting it dry? Or steaming it?

You can read more about ash on @DeeAnna’s website.

 

[srez]

Hi @ScentimentallyYours
I used the same lard recipe with distilled water and that batch came out fine. Meaning with that lard. I used the same lard from the same bucket but just added the goat milk and that's when it showed up. It did progress after I cut it.

Maybe after a few minutes of it being poured into the molds, I put it in the fridge. It was in there for roughly about 18 to 20 hours...That's when I cut it.

I didn't think about spritzing, I going to give that a shot just out of curiosity.
Actually, I do have a steamer. I'm going to try that!!
Thank you for the suggestion!!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Did you pour the lard batch at emulsion or a very light trace? I get that kind of ash when the emulsion is weak.

 

[srez]

Hi @Mobjack Bay it was light trace.

Usually when I stick blend the lard (no gm) it takes quite a while to thicken up and I haven't had an issue. So I blended like I normally do and figured it would be fine like usual.
I guess I'll try blending a bit more to thicken up when using gm before I pour if that's what you're saying.

 

[srez]

When I did small batches of lard with gm they came out fine. However, it seems that the bigger batch means more heat generating?
I will definitely try stick blending until medium trace at least to see if they makes a difference... As well as using the freezer/fridge.
I also tried steaming last night.. it's still noticable, but now has a bit more of a shine

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I guess I'll try blending a bit more to thicken up when using gm before I pour if that's what you're saying.

It’s the only thing I can think of to try. Given how smooth your tops are, I suspected the trace was very light.

What are you leaving out/how(does) the recipe change when you add the lard?

 

[srez]

What are you leaving out/how(does) the recipe change when you add the lard?

Nothing really. It's the same lard recipe (that turns out fine with distilled water) but I just add 100% milk/frozen instead of distilled water.

I'm going to make another batch pay closer attention to the trace to see if that helps.

Thank you,

Steve

 

[Iluminameluna]

@srez Did you finally resolve your flaking/"ashy" issues w/ your soaps. I'm just curious bcs I get that with my lard/olive & lard/HO canola blends.
Eta: I don't use goat anything in my soaps. Usually I don't use any milks at all. I use honey, salt, sometimes organic unrefined sugar, but my "extra ashy" soaps have usually happened w/ my lard or palm oil blends. Now that I think about it, that palm oil soap batch was my WORST. The individual soaps, which I did in molds, almost looked like flaky biscuits! I HAD to unmold them the next day, though they were crumbling in the corners, & some were oozing my badly behaving lavender (something it HADN'T dune b4!), bcs I had to travel. Which reminds me I need to ask my Nanny, Mom to me, how they are behaving, bcs they were for her especially. That was 3kg of soap, made & unmolded, in 1 evening/overnight, I was so exhausted. I just hope it was worth it & they've behaved!
@srez I've not meant to sell my soaps EVER, so I've never worried about soda ash. My kids didn't care if the soaps I gave them had it, & when they gave their friends my soaps, it was w/ the understanding that THEY understood what was in it bcs I'd give everybody a copy of the recipes. Much of the time they'd use the soaps at our house, or see the results w/ us. Sometimes they'd find me making them, & ask me questions. And they'd still ask for some.

 

[DeeAnna]

...Guess I'll try the freezer instead of the fridge for the next go around....

You might try Ford's method instead, which is more likely to give you reliable results -- put the mold up on a couple soup cans and train a fan to blow room air over, around, and under the mold. Moving room temp air is more efficient at cooling than not-moving cold air in a fridge or freezer. Not to mention the fan method eliminates the risk of putting hazardous saponifying soap batter in a food-storage fridge or freezer.

You haven't explained the details of your actual recipes, and I suspect there might be issues with your method and/or recipe that could be affecting the lard soap that haven't yet been mentioned. And we don't know the "not lard" recipe either so there's no way to compare the two and see any significant differences.

The photos of the goat milk and lard batch are not real clear, so I can't tell if they show what looks like soda ash or whether the soap has a bad rash of stearic spots.

Soda ash can be the result of a too-low lye concentration or pouring at bare emulsion. Stearic spots can be the result of the fats not being fully melted. With the temps you mention, it's likely that you're not getting your lard fully melted.

 

[Iluminameluna]

With the temps you mention, it's likely that you're not getting your lard fully melted.

If this can happen w/ lard, can it happen w/ palm oil? Bcs it might've been why my batter was seeming to emulsify but still looked like it wasn't completely. And though temps in the daytime were in the low- to mid-80's, they dropped to mid-50's by 10p & lower later on. To say I slowed down BCS of joint pain, is accurate. I was working alone, & having to sit & rest e/ 10 mins, for about 5-10 mins. It meant my solid fats were having to be repeatedly placed on the cobbled-together double boiler.
\\I'm so used to lard here in the States, where it comes so cheaply, & easy to find in many ways, shapes, & forms. While just S. of the border & onwards, where so, many dishes are pork-based, you can't find ANY lard, except the kind you want to add to tamal dough, or other cooking recipes. So, unless you want to make a soap that makes you smell like bacon or chicharrón, you're out of options except for liquids which aren't high in oleics, those that are, are very pricey! And palm oil is unheard of.
For those trying to make soap on a budget, like I was doing, & trying to teach others in disadvantaged, small communities, it was a bit of a trial & error. And I ended up having to cheat bcs I took my own resources to them, which kind of defeated the purpose of the whole endeavor. \\
ETA: Sorry, end of rant.

 

[Sudds]

Thanks @Ford . Guess I'll try the freezer instead of the fridge for the next go around.

Funny thing is when I do the regular goat milk in the fridge they come out fine.

The lard bar I do is either a 50 or 60% with 10% coconut and the remainder olive oil and those come out fine as well. Even after 20 hours or so NOT being in the fridge. And they cut easy.

For whatever reason the goat milk with lard did that chalky, flaky type thing on the surface.

I don't have a beveler like you, but might just try using a pastry knife to do a quick little scrape and see if that makes a difference.

What kind of lard are you using? I have used beef, pork, and goose tallow and never had these problems. After several years of not soaping I am getting ready to start again, thank heavens! All of my soaps were made with fresh goat's milk so it has been interesting to read about the several problems folks have encountered while using it. It's nice being here again!

 

[Iluminameluna]

@Sudds welcome back to the madness! The water's fine!