Fiveleafclover (if you're lurking)

[Hausfrau007]

I'm sorry your conversation here went sideways. It's just that we're all a bunch of hippies here, lol.

I'm curious, what do you need your end product for? I mean, who would add a known carcinogen to their gorgeous natural soaps on purpose? You obviously know as much about this as any of us, so I want to know what your soap would be used for?

Clean the engine block in your car? Gift it to our mother-in-law?

 

[lizflowers42]

I'm sorry your conversation here went sideways. It's just that we're all a bunch of hippies here, lol.

I'm curious, what do you need your end product for? I mean, who would add a known carcinogen to their gorgeous natural soaps on purpose? You obviously know as much about this as any of us, so I want to know what your soap would be used for?

Clean the engine block in your car? Gift it to our mother-in-law?

Girl, you crack me up.

 

[Hausfrau007]

Don't laugh!! I do want to know why you would intentionally prison your soap that way. I bet there's a good reason.

 

[lizflowers42]

Twas the "gift for your mother-in-law" that got me

 

[Hausfrau007]

Lol, I know... . Now, if we can only make fiveleafclover return to satisfy my curiosity...

 

[lsg]

SLS is not a carcinogen, it can be an irritant if used incorrectly.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/shampoo.asp

http://www.treehugger.com/style/common-eco-myth-sodium-lauryl-sulfate-sls-causes-cancer.html

http://www.cancer.org/aboutus/howwehelpyou/shampoo

 

[Hausfrau007]

Lets not get into that discussion. There's stuff pro and con on the issue on the Internet. People choose to believe the articles that agree with them. If you've seen what SLS has done in my family, there's no question about its carcinogenic properties.

 

[fiveleafclover]

I have a few great mother in law jokes too. The reason is pretty simple. My wife pretty much flat out refuses to use CP soap because it wont lather the way her store purchased body wash does unless we are camping and then she complains about the bar soap. I dont know if I will make any soap with SLS or SDS but in the end I was just curious if it could be done. I cant see how home made soap with SLS or SDS can be any worse or better than store bought stuff. Sometimes I just want to know the answer to something. This is one of those somethings. Beyond that, you cant all be too hippish because I have received multiple private messages on here with answers about SLS and SDS. Its too bad that one person spoke for you all and then locked down the post. Thank you to everyone else though. And PM me if you want to hear a few really good mother in law jokes :-D

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Let me make a discaimer first: I'm of the hippie persuasion - only use vegetable oils, essential oils, herbs, clays, etc - but I also understand that every synthetic isn't automatically "dangerous". We all use Sodium Hydroxide, right? A synthetic chemical that we soap makers can't avoid unless you're producing your own lye (probably more dangerous than its synthetic counterpart). My approach is "the simpler the better"...less chance for irritation and this also avoids usings chemicals I can't pronounce or that I am unsure of its safety. While I personally would NOT use SLS/SLES/SDS (an irritant at the very least to me personally) as an additive in any product, there is no proof that it is a carcinogen:
http://personalcaretruth.com/2010/09/does-sodium-lauryl-sulfate-sls-cause-cancer/

The personalcaretruth.com website is a great resource for fact based information. The EWG has been proven to promote false fear-mongering info for years.

I don't take issue that someone like FiveLeafClover would want to use SLS, or anything else for that matter, in their own product (as long as its labeled with such if it's for sale).
I DO take issue, however, to how the question was presented:
I only want "this" answer - don't waste my time with any other info.

It came across as rude and abrasive, especially from a new member in their first post, and doesn't endear many of us to be helpful. This is a forum of very intelligent and experienced people that are generally very helpful, friendly, and generous with their knowledge...not a one-trick-pony-answer-bot.

 

[Hausfrau007]

No one here speaks for all of us, flc. You're smart. You know that's not the case. And now you can put that to bed.

Could I ask you to reconsider adding SLS to your soap? There's enough poisonous shyte out there you can buy very cheaply on the dollar store that would make your wife happy. No need to get into the considerable expense and effort of making, and them ruining, your otherwise gorgeous soaps. Make the soaps for yourself and your kids, if you have any, maybe. I'm this close to begging, can you tell?

 

[fiveleafclover]

To AlchemyandAshes I did not intend for it to be rude. But I wanted to avoid pitfalls. It just seems that so many people on forums dont answer questions but instead ridicule them. Its not that I only wanted "this" answer. Its that I really wanted "an" answer. If this were a math forum and I asked for PI to the 5th digit I would really want someone to post the reply, 3.14159 and not you can just use 3.14 its good enough.... That being said, I wasnt looking for this to be an answer bot. I was simply looking for the discussion to stay on thread. That threat being "how" and not "why".

That out of the way. Thank you for the link and the support. I have no doubt that SLS or SDS or SLSA can cause cancer in large amounts. So can Basil oil according to some studies.. But, I can see how it can be useful too.

 

[fiveleafclover]

Hausfrau007, I definitely do not see myself adding it to soaps at any significant rate. But, I am a happily married man and I can tell you that part of remaining happily married is keeping my wife happy. She would much prefer I make her something than buy her something. SLS in her soap may shorten her life, but my not making her happy could shorten mine ;-)

Seriously though, neither of us are above using dollar store soap. We both find ourselves in the dollar shop fairly often. I would just like to give her something that she well really like that I made with my own hands. I had her Rings custom made, I made the wine for the wedding, and I craft a lot of the items we use daily. I honestly enjoy making her happy.

 

[Hausfrau007]

I see where you're coming from, flc. You're a good husband. I hope the scary start here won't dissuade you from posting many many more times. I personally enjoy your style. I may be the only one, but I understood your original post to the tee. It seemed to me that you've been around the mulberry bush once too many times and just wanted a straight answer. Honestly, you remind my of my own, very precious Mister.

 

[2lilboots]

I see where you're coming from, flc. You're a good husband. I hope the scary start here won't dissuade you from posting many many more times. I personally enjoy your style. I may be the only one, but I understood your original post to the tee. It seemed to me that you've been around the mulberry bush once too many times and just wanted a straight answer. Honestly, you remind my of my own, very precious Mister.

*cough cough*.....flirt........*cough cough*

Welcome to the forum FLC! I can see you have been keeping Hausfrau from soaping! lol!

 

[IrishLass]

You sound a lot like my own wonderful husband, fiveleafclover. He made my wedding dress, believe it or not. It's kind of amusing- he's a major techno/computer geek who writes computer software for a living, but he's just as happy and comfortable behind a sewing machine as he is behind a computer. And he loves to cook, too. Back off girls, he's all mine!

Back to the subject at hand, though. It was asked by someone why anyone would want to add a detergent to their handmade soap and so I thought I'd address that. I know of at least one person on another forum who did so for a client who could not have vegetable oils in her soap, so she made a soap for her with animal fats and added SLSA to give it good lather, and it worked out great for her.

Even though I'm a soaper who loves my handmade lye-based soap, I haven't hopped onto the anti-detergent bandwagon. Some people's skins are such that they just simply cannot tolerate handmade lye-based soap no two ways about it, but they do perfectly fine with sydets instead, which have a lower pH. I have a very good friend whom I love dearly that is in that boat. No matter how high I superfat and use the mildest of oils, her skin does not do well with my lye-based soap. Dr. Kevin Dunn in his book Scientific Soapmaking has a good discussion about detergents and gives references to the original source studies on them in regards to whether they pose a danger or not, so that we can read the studies in their entirety and proper context (instead of reading blurbs and soundbytes taken out of context) for ourselves and read past all the hype out there.

For what it's worth, being somewhat of an amateur mad scientist at heart, I bought a small amount of SLSA a few months ago from MMS to try in an all-tallow batch. I haven't made it yet, but it's on my to-do list, hopefully before spring arrives. I'll let y'all know how it goes when I actually get around to doing it.


IrishLass

 

[Lindy]

I would love to hear how it turns out. I don't have a problem with detergents, I just can't use them because of my sensitivities.

IrishLass maybe PM fiveleafclover with the other forum and introduce him to that soaper since that is really what he has been asking.

 

[fiveleafclover]

Irish, I didnt make her wedding dress. But I jumped into a waterfall in my tux with her in her dress at our wedding. Was an amazing day.

HausFrou you flatter me.... Ill admit I like it.

I am glad to see that this subject served a purpose for people after all.... I have found from members here and another forum that 3% at trace seems to be the starting point but that the range can go anywhere from 1% to 50% and I guess that would make sense especially depending on the base oils used. It appears that the material has to be dissolved in water and then added. Furthermore, blending it in can be problematic as it will want to foam a lot during the process. I am betting it could be added in a re-batch kinda like adding essentials.

That being said, is there anyway this thread could be named to include SLS and SDS in the title so that people can search for it and have it turn up seems where the original thread was locked before an answer could be posted.....?

 

[fiveleafclover]

Housefrou, if you can send me a PM I see you are banned, but we can trade e-mail addys if you want.

 

[Lindy]

fiveleafclover with Hausfrau being banned she is unable to send you a PM. Just thought you should know so you don't feel hurt when she doesn't contact you.

 

[fiveleafclover]

Ah, well, hausfrou, my user name and e-mail are the same, and i use gmail for a client. I figure it is probably against rules to post the address outright, but with that information you should be able to put it together