Does this drive you nuts?

[judymoody]

To paraphrase a wise man ... my feeling angry or frustrated about someone else's apparent ignorance or laziness is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Thanks, I need to remember this!

I don't mind naive questions asked in ignorance. I do mind it when people dig in after receiving some gentle advice about etiquette.

We all have to start somewhere and if we get somewhere, I think it's nice to pay it forward if the person who's asking for help is genuinely willing to learn.

 

[AKjulz]

Well said judymoody.
I'm always WAY too happy to help when talking to other soap vendors at local shows. Over the course if my business I have learned that there is a fine line in helping and giving suggestions, to just handing out all your hard earned efforts. I am continually reminding myself that from a business perspective it's important not to share ALL. I'm a helper type personality and have to make a concerted effort to say no, or if that's just too much confrontation be vague about specific suppliers, recipes or propitiatory info when people get too pushy or rude.
Part of my problem is I'm so darn trusting and it's fun to share our craft and help people who are just learning I have to remember that there are many people out there that really do just want a short cut and will take advantage. And of course we wouldn't want to enable them in their laziness

 

[pamielynn]

It's always fun to talk to other soapers, but I think the comparison of asking for a recipe for a product you are selling is a smidge different than asking for a cookie recipe. And if the the person is in the cookie selling business, it's just as rude to ask for the recipe. I met a soaper lately who is selling way too soon after making her first batch, but we talked and I told her what I could, in terms of my own experience. But in no way would I give out my recipe - my ingredients are listed. If anyone wants to copy, they can go from there. And it's not like it's classified or anything - there's only so many ways to make soap; but I still feel that it's rude to just come up and ask for a recipe - not just what's in the soap.

 

[Ancel]

I'm a teacher and so answering questions is pretty much par for the course. And I do tend to give away all of my secrets (I dislike secrets), and then sometimes kick myself for it. I think most of us came to this forum ignorant, but enthusiastic, and asked either direct questions or gleaned from others' queries. We all have to start somewhere, and people learn differently - there are so many people who aren't comfortable learning on computers, but want to talk to a real person with live information.
It sounds like your peeve was from a comment made on Facebook? From a stranger? I don't know the context, so I may be completely off. I'm responding because I'm definitely guilty of asking those I perceive to be knowledgable stupid questions, usually out of enthusiasm and an immediate desire to know.

 

[neeners]

Neve, i totally agree.

once, i did a food event with a friend, and this one woman who attended wanted us to give her menu ideas for a restaurant that SHE RUNS. we were too busy to chat with her at the event. a few days after, she msged me saying "oh, if you have any ideas, feel free to send them my way!". i mean....you OWN a restaurant and you want FREE advice on what to put on your own menu? c'mon lady. do some research! can't stand the laziness!

for me, i find it annoying when someone doesn't do any research. there's a really big difference between someone going "so what's the recipe and how do you do this?" vs. "so I've done some reading and this is what I've found. does this sound reasonable for a newbie?". i'd much rather help person #2 than person #1. my responses to person #1 is usually to go do some research and ask me if they have questions.

 

[dixiedragon]

I totally see where if you are selling, being asked for your recipe probably does feel rude. But I do think a lot of times, a person who isn't selling just isn't thinking it all the way through. They don't think, "Hey, this person has put a lot of time and effort into this and they're trying to make some extra money doing it." Rather, they're thinking, "This stuff is GREAT! This person seems nice, I'll just ask them how they made it." Everybody who has asked me, I've said, "I love Soap Making Forum. Lots of good information there. I also like The Sage, Brambleberry and Miller Soap." And they all say thanks.

Anybody who keeps pressing after that is rude.

But the restaurant lady? Pretty weird. I'd think that one of the main points of owning your own restaurant would be designing your own menu. (If I ever own a restuarent, the breakfast menu will be Chinese food b/c I LOVE Chinese food for breakfast.)

 

[neeners]

But the restaurant lady? Pretty weird. I'd think that one of the main points of owning your own restaurant would be designing your own menu. (If I ever own a restuarent, the breakfast menu will be Chinese food b/c I LOVE Chinese food for breakfast.)

it's being lazy, not wanting to do your research and put effort into your product. i put effort into things i GIVE AWAY. i don't even know what lengths i'd go to if i were to sell! let me just tell you I've never heard good reviews from her restaurant....

 

[Neve]

Yes it was. I posted that the soaps etc. were ready for pickup for the ladies who chipped in a little cash each for the supplies, and a complete stranger randomly commented "can you give me your recipe I'm a newbie".

Firstly, which one, there are like ten of them! What do you want to make? And who the heck are you anyway! You didn't show any interest up until now. And I wanted to go ballistic on him because like I said it's one of my hot buttons. I guess because I am self-taught in pretty much everything and while I accept that many people need to be shown stuff, I don't accept people just wanting to go from A-Z and skipping everything in between. The information is there on the internet for everyone... it's not hard to find. Heck I learned a ton just by reading this forum before I made anything and before I joined.

Another lady PM'd me to ask if I had a body butter recipe I could give her. Well, because she asked nicely, I pointed her to the fabulous one sold in a store in town for way less than it would cost her to buy all those oils and butters. She thanked me. I didn't have a recipe I could share anyway.

It sounds like your peeve was from a comment made on Facebook? From a stranger?

 

[Neve]

Yup. That's exactly how I feel. I always help person #2, in any way I can. #1 is the exact thing I am talking about. Doesn't want to do any work at all. They just want to reap the rewards of other people's hard work with no compensation.

 

[MarisaJensen]

I'm actually a bit upset at this. As a newbie but someone who without any help so far who has successfully made 21 batches of soap and 4 failed batches. Reading a book a non stop research online then stumbling into this forum I now feel un-welcomed to ask questions.


If I was a no visit soap maker I would and WILL be sharing my knowledge with anyone who wants help.

Thank you for making me lurker within my first couple of weeks of signing up. roblem:

 

[Neve]

Please re-read the post, properly this time. If you have been lurking on this forum, reading and trying to learn, then you are NOT one of the people I am referring to.

I am a newbie as well you know! But get this, two of my friends recently asked me to show them how to make stuff, then the next week they were turning around and selling it! No effort to learn about anything properly, asked me what to do, what to put in, how to do it - then sell! And they know a lot less than I do and I'm not selling (yet). Would you like it if you were selling at a market stall and every week people came up to you trying to gain all your knowledge so they can set up shop next store? I don't think you would. Wait until it happens to you and then see how you feel about it, knowing that it is a deliberate attempt by such people to do as little as possible because hey, you already did it for them!

You say you've made 21 batches and have been doing non-stop research - so how could you possibly be upset? You are person #2, the type people WANT to help! I am also person #2. So are probably many people. I am talking about the truly lazy people that want to copy someone rather than put in any effort.

I'm actually a bit upset at this. As a newbie but someone who without any help so far who has successfully made 21 batches of soap and 4 failed batches. Reading a book a non stop research online then stumbling into this forum I now feel un-welcomed to ask questions.


If I was a no visit soap maker I would and WILL be sharing my knowledge with anyone who wants help.

Thank you for making me lurker within my first couple of weeks of signing up. roblem:

 

[rebekahhall]

I had a woman come up to my booth at a market and asked a ton of questions about how I make my candles. 1 month later she showed up at the same market selling candles and set right next to me! Lol I totally get what you are saying.

 

[rebekahhall]

It took me a year of experimenting and perfecting to develop my candles before I was comfortable selling them to strangers.

 

[Feather]

But get this, two of my friends recently asked me to show them how to make stuff, then the next week they were turning around and selling it! No effort to learn about anything properly, asked me what to do, what to put in, how to do it - then sell! And they know a lot less than I do and I'm not selling (yet).

These people were NOT your friends. They are your competitors in business.
I had a friend like that once, after she slept with my husband at the time, it pretty much decided things for me, that I wasn't her friend and she wasn't mine. I was once much younger than I am now. :shh:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I must admit, if someone I know asked me to show them, I'd explain that it's okay, I WANT to make stuff so I'll make it for them if they tell me what they want!

 

[Lin]

Not too long ago I made some products in front of my boyfriend, lip balm, body butter, lotion bars. The good thing that came of it was it got him interested in it and soaping and after watching the soaping 101 dollar store video he took me to dollar tree and said to pick out everything I'd need to soap. However he also immediately started talking about selling stuff like the products I'd made, which made me pretty uncomfortable! But since then he's been researching and asking me to send him links from where I learned stuff.

 

[Feather]

Most companies don't make it because it usually takes more than one specialty.
1. A head business person
2. A good marketing person
3. A do-er

Most people can't do all three. So I guess if you meet one of those people and you can be one of those people, you can have a better chance at a successful business.
I'm better at 1 and 3, I'm lousy at 2.

 

[Scentapy]

I consider anyone on this forum - reading and sharing as "doing their research" and so I think it is perfectly fine to share and receive info on this forum.

However, I recently had a girl come up to my booth at a craft fair and say "Oh, I have always wanted to make this stuff and start my own business" and then she proceeded to turn my products around and read the ingredient labels. I thought that was SO RUDE. In addition to that, she started to ask me questions about how I make the products. I responded with "It has taken me years of research and development to get my recipes where I am happy and proud of my product". PERIOD - I said nothing more because I am NOT going to hand all my info over to a local individual that is going to pop up and compete with me with MY OWN recipes and experience! Sorry - its not personal, its business!

I am more than HAPPY to exchange on this forum though because I feel that everyone on here is contributing - even if its just reading - they are still doing the research.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There's a part of me (a small but very evil part) that would want to respond with something like "You can use jam instead of lye. You'll never read about it as it's a huge secret within the soaping world, but whenever we talk about lye, we actually mean jam. Have fun"

 

[Feather]

Scentapy, I agree with you on all you wrote.
That saying "this is not personal it is business" always rubs me the wrong way. (not you) I've even said it before. It's a common phrase. It still seems so wrong to me.

It is personal when someone steals your ideas/recipes/husband so they can benefit in business or income and it takes your rights away with them competing with you, and possibly your income, so then, you have no business, no money, and it is very personal. Follow me?

In the movie Erin Brockovich, she responded to this saying "this is not personal it is business".

Erin Brockovich: NOT PERSONAL! That is my WORK, my SWEAT, and MY TIME AWAY FROM MY KIDS! IF THAT IS NOT PERSONAL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!

I'll probably scream Erin Brockovich's words the next time someone says that to me. (not to you Scentapy)

T. E. G. "jam" :lolno::lolno:
2 cups of apricot jam
4 cups of lies (ha)
4 cups of oils of nightshade
Mix well and you get soap.