Coconut and Olive oil recipe combos...

[Soapsugoii]

Ok, so I'd like to keep my recipe simple and involving only a couple oils. I love my 100/20coconut soaps but my friends find them a bit drying. I recently made a 70% CO 30% OO with 20% SF and it seems to be quite a bit more moisturizing. Would there be any problems with DOS or rancidity from the OO? I know CO is usually pretty resistant to that stuff.

I also want to play around with the percentages a bit. What do y'all think would be a good ratio? I want a relatively hard bar, and I like the hardness of the CO but even with 30% OO the bar is considerably less crumbly and has a more silky feel compared to 100% CO. I use CPHP btw.

 

[Rob K]

I don't think OO is particularly DOS prone, although there are some other oils I avoid for that reason. Just keep your soap cool, dry and out of direct sunlight and it should be fine.

As for the blends, the best recommendation I can make is what I did when we started - make up some small test batches, and vary the CO/OO ratio by about 10% between batches. So one batch will be 80/20, the next 70/30, 60/40 and so on. Everyone has their idea of the "perfect" blend, and they may have completely different priorities than you. This way you find what's best in your situation.

Last, a hint to get you started. As you increase the OO percentage, you might want to reduce the lye discount to the 5-10% range.

Good luck!

 

[carebear]

Sadly, OO is DOS prone. It's not too problematic in blends but Castile soaps have a relatively high likelihood of DOS, especially with a long cure period.

Dr Dunn has published some work on DOS and his experiments showed that the level of lye discount is not related to the likelihood of DOS.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Hmmm, do I need to do a lye discount with a high superfat? I don't really know much about lye discounting. I'm assuming you just have more unsaponifieds in the finished soap, so its the same effect as superfatting?

I want more co than oo so ill most likely settle on 70/30 or 60/40

 

[carebear]

Lye discount is, effectively, your superfat.

CP or HP, instead of adding extra oil at trace or whenever, you can simply use less lye. This is what soapcalc actually does in its calculations.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Ahh, gotcha I'll try that sometime. So far I've been adding the SF oil after the saponification process. I use EV organic CO and it's a tad expensive so I don't want it touched by the lye. I want to start trying some CP recipes tho, interested in taking a crack at it, and I wouldn't mind some purdy finished soaps!

 

[Iris Reola]

I've made the 70% OO and 30% CO recipe many times with great success. It has a pretty nice lather and I haven't found it too drying at all, and I have sensitive skin. However, I've started adding castor oil to my recipes to make the lather and moisturizing factors even better.

 

[carebear]

Ahh, gotcha I'll try that sometime. So far I've been adding the SF oil after the saponification process. I use EV organic CO and it's a tad expensive so I don't want it touched by the lye. I want to start trying some CP recipes tho, interested in taking a crack at it, and I wouldn't mind some purdy finished soaps!

From what I've read, soap isn't stable. The oils swap in and out of the fatty acid salts. So even if you HP, there's a good chance your residual oil isn't necessarily what you think it is.

 

[Soapsugoii]

Ahh, gotcha I'll try that sometime. So far I've been adding the SF oil after the saponification process. I use EV organic CO and it's a tad expensive so I don't want it touched by the lye. I want to start trying some CP recipes tho, interested in taking a crack at it, and I wouldn't mind some purdy finished soaps!

From what I've read, soap isn't stable. The oils swap in and out of the fatty acid salts. So even if you HP, there's a good chance your residual oil isn't necessarily what you think it is.

I completely forgot to reply to this! I've taken a month long break from making soap to study for the LSAT, and so I haven't been on the forums much.

This is really interesting! And would make a difference in whether I decide to CP or HP mainly, going forward. Do you have any links to more info about this?

 

[carebear]

Sorry, I don't have the links, tho I've discussed it with chemists several times. I do think that if you HP you have a bit of an edge. In CP - not at all. As a PhD chemist just wrote me TODAY - lye reacts to whatever it comes in contact with (assuming it's reactive LOL).

 

[Sunny]

Sadly, OO is DOS prone. It's not too problematic in blends but Castile soaps have a relatively high likelihood of DOS, especially with a long cure period.

Dr Dunn has published some work on DOS and his experiments showed that the level of lye discount is not related to the likelihood of DOS.

I'm just trying to understand this. Are you saying that having a higher superfat does not contribute to DOS? So a soap having a 5% sf is as likely to get DOS as a bar with a 10% sf (if they contain the same ingredients). Is that right?

 

[carebear]

Yes. That is what Dr Dunn's research has shown.
The level of superfat is not the issue, it's the selection of oils and it doesn't matter if you do 0% or 10% "superfat".

Granted, this is in CP. I cannot speak to HP with a superfat oil added after the cook, but believe it would be the same. Remember HP soaps are not really stable - they continue to change, and the SF doesn't remain "pristine".

 

[dieSpinne]

From what I have read, it is the linoleic and linolenic acid content that contributes most heavily to DOS. Both of these fatty acids are highly prone to oxidation and benefit from the addition of tocopherols to the soap recipe.

Pure OO has ~12% Linoleic acid and ~1% Linolenic acid... a moderately high percentage... and so would benefit from the addition of Vitamin E.

Pure CO has about 2% linoleic and usually NO linolenic (The more fragile of the two) acids.

Even combining these oils will still leave a substantial percentage of the surface of the bar exposed to oxygen and run the risk of DOS.

 

[carebear]

Don't get me wrong, my olive oli soaps don't typically get DOS at all, but it is a relatively risky oil. Much riskier, from personal experience and the literature, are soy and canola. There is nothing wrong with a 70% olive oil soap.

 

[Sunny]

Yes. That is what Dr Dunn's research has shown.
The level of superfat is not the issue, it's the selection of oils and it doesn't matter if you do 0% or 10% "superfat".

Granted, this is in CP. I cannot speak to HP with a superfat oil added after the cook, but believe it would be the same. Remember HP soaps are not really stable - they continue to change, and the SF doesn't remain "pristine".

Thanks for answering There is some conflicting info floating around here and this is good to know. I've always kept a fairly low sf but I think I'm going to try a couple of batches with a higher one now, just for fun and to see if it changes the feel. Thanks a lot!