Bizarre temp behaviour in milk soap

[eleraine]

I made some milk soap yesterday night and while it got to trace, it saponified quite slowly - slower than I would expected for milk soap and when I went in to check this morning (less than 12 hours), the soap has thickened and hardened but it's still soft and there was not much heat.

I used breast milk coz I have 3 liters of the stuff in my freezer and no ewww, please - breast milk soap is actually very popular in Asia and I didn't want to toss out my breast milk.

Recipe:

40% olive oil
25% coconut oil
25% shea butter
10% macadamia nut oil

Superfat 5%
Breast milk 175 gms (remaining is this tea infused water to bring it up to 220 gms)
Lye 96 gms

EO: Lavender, chamomile, neroli, sandalwood (all amounting to 1.5 tsp in total)

I did up the lye mix by mixing in lye with the water infusion but halfway through, the lye simply stop reacting - I had the container in a pot of cold water and the water was warm but the thermometer showed no temp climbing despite me adding in some more lye. When I tossed in the frozen milk, it dropped and while the milk did melt and all, the temp of the lye mix never increased beyond 25°C. The lye-milk-water infusion was starting to smell like soap, looked a little like soap - I understand that it is the reaction between the lye and the fats in the milk.

I poured that into the oils about 10 mins later at 40°C. Took a while to get to trace (this part is normal, I feel with OO higher than 30%). After which I poured into my mould and covered the sides (but not the top). I went into check every 30 mins. I finished soaping at 11am and by midnight it was just getting to rather thick trace and the mould was warm-cool. The soap didn't swirl around easily when I move the mould a little around (dunno how to explain this). At 4am (when I got up to feed my little man), I went to check. I moved the mould around and the soap wasn't moving (I guess it is starting to set and if you press your finger on the surface, it is still quite soft) but it wasn't very warm to the touch. At 7am when I got up for the day and went to check, it has set but is a little harder (still soft tho) than before. Temp? Not very warm either.

I decided to insulate it and see what happens.

Question: Am I going to get soap or what? Any ideas what happened along the way?

 

[Francis]

I am sorry, but since I am a newbie, I don't have any good answers for the fate of your soap, but you are definitely not going to get any ewwww from me. Wow, you used "liquid gold" for soap! How wonderful! I am sure that once it's properly cured, it would turn out to be some amazing soaps.

 

[Fragola]

Be sure that lye always produces the same amount of heat when dissolved (not really a reaction).

Looking at your example, you added 96 grams of lye to 45 grams of water. It seems natural to me that everything would stop halfway because the solubility for lye only allows about half to be dissolved.

Also, I believe that the "reaction speed" slows down as you add more lye. Which means you always get more heat from the first flakes of lye than from the last ones (at least in a very concentrated solution).

 

[eleraine]

True...that's why I stopped adding lye halfway and put in my milk instead. The temp stayed constant for a while and then I made the mistake of putting in all my frozen milk before tossing in the rest of the lye. The milk melted but the lye stayed at a low temp...below 25°C. Oops.

I do hope I get soap...I just took a peek at the mould and well, it looks like soap and is firming up. Hm.

 

[ToniD]

You will get soap, sometimes it just takes a bit longer if you soap cooler.

 

[eleraine]

This is becoming an update thread!

I couldn't stand it and unmoulded it just now as it was already at room temp. The base has some residual oil (I experienced something similar with my chocolate soap) but the bar is firm and pretty - creamy colour, looks even, etc. It's still a little on the soft side so I am going to leave it sitting out as a log before slicing them into bars - should be okay no?

 

[welovesoap]

It sounds like it turned out great! Please post pictures, if you can!

And I have to say, having personally breastfed both of my little ones, that I WISH I could have done this! (Alas, they are 7 and 10 now, so no lactation! And I wasn't soaping when they were babies, sadly.)

Also, I think it was very courageous of you to post about it, considering that some folks might have a negative (read: ignorant) reaction!

 

[eleraine]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I read THE thread on breast milk soap. It's interesting to see the response because back in M'sia, the rage with soap now is breast milk soap (because of how mild it is, rich, creamy, good for sensitive skin, babies, etc, etc). Almost all local soapmakers will be asked if they have breast milk soap on hand.

(Of course we have a network for sharing and donating milk...so people aren't sheepish about using breast milk in soap either.)

I did M&P with my breast milk and my hubby loves it. Says it's very soothing and keeps his skin soft. Heh.

Will update later with pictures once they are sliced.

 

[eleraine]

For those who are interested, pictures...

About two hours after I unmoulded, I got this:

The overall creamy appearance is now gone and I got this hideous looking gel (am I right?) patch.

Fearing the worse, I sliced into the bars (18 hours into bedding). They are firm yet buttery soft and a little sticky on the insides. The dark patch looks like it's just on the surface but I'll see later if it has spread now that the log is sliced. Ignore the specks - it's from the tea I used.

It smells and feels nice tho - very creamy.

 

[welovesoap]

I don't think the gel looks bad! And, I might be wrong, but I think sometimes it fades a bit as the soap ages.

 

[eleraine]

I found it to be so weird because when I unmoulded it, it was consistently creamy throughout the entire bar. I left it sitting in the kitchen - maybe it's a little chilly today (my soap sits in the bathroom at a nice 24-25°C and the kitchen/house is 20-22°C) - and one hour later, I see that large patch. OMIGOD OMIGOD, talk about panic. O'well...my first soap has a gel patch and it's not very visible now so hopefully this one goes in the same direction too!

 

[judymoody]

Goat milk and cow milk are also breast milk. No need for squeamishness. Some people are concerned about microbial contamination in the absence of pasteurization but the saponification process should take care of that.

Sounds like your soap didn't gel or not fully which would account for the surface softness. Also the fat in the breast milk will effectively up the superfat somewhat which may account for the slight oiliness.

I just saw the update and partial gel is no biggie if that's what it is. The line between gelled and ungelled will become less noticeable over time.

 

[IrishLass]

Your soap looks lovely! Just let it cure and it will be fine.

Ditto to everything judymoody said.

I must admit, if I were still breast feeding I'd give it a try myself.

Btw, I had no idea it was so popular in Asia.

IrishLass

 

[krissy]

you have inspired me to try this. i know a woman who is bf and i asked her if she would be willing to trade some milk for some soap made with it. i hope she says yes.

 

[krissy]

she said yes!! so this weekend, i am making some!

 

[eleraine]

Let me know how it goes!

Just another quick update - the gel has spread to all the bars just as I expected. It happened to my first soap as well. Also, there is a very thin layer of ash on the top. Other than not, it still looks good.

 

[krissy]

i just finished with the batch. i have it in the freezer now and will leave it there for a few days. i didnt scent the soap as the mommy who i am making it for wanted it unscented. i am pretty happy with how it looks so far.

it is only a 1# batch, so i shortened my mold to fit that


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[eleraine]

Looks nice!

Btw, is ash common with milk soaps?

 

[krissy]

i pulled the soap out of the freezer and unmolded it yesterday. it is still waaaay to soft to do more than look at it but so far it is so pretty! it is very creamy colored/looking and smells fantastic. i didnt put any scent at all in in so i wondered how it would smell but it smells fresh and "soapy" and soft.