Rebatching salt bars-failure

[Obsidian]

Figured I should share this in case in can save someone else a similar failure.

When I rebatch salt bars, I always grate them into a fine powder then add to a new batch of soap. This works wonderfully and no salt is lost or dissolved away.

Today I ended up with a small amount of salt gratings and I decided to try and cook it like regular rebatch. I added some water and some spirulina for color, cooked until it was hot. It never did liquify, instead it turned lumpy and some of the water separated.
I cooked it longer and it almost came together but as soon as it cooled even a tiny bit, it crumbled back apart.
I stuffed it into molds anyway to see what would happen. They came out in one piece but as soon as they were touched, they fell back about.

I broke them back apart so the crumbs can dry and I will use them as a loose powder or maybe tied in the toe of a knee high. The lather of the crumbs is different, thinner bubbles and not as creamy and it seems to leave more of a waxy feeling on my skin.
Its not bad but cooking it definitely changed the soap and not in a good way.

 

[Hazel]

Thanks for sharing! I'm surprised it didn't work because I wouldn't have thought it would make that much of a difference. What was the ratio of the salt gratings to the new batch?

 

[Obsidian]

I didn't add the grating to a new batch, I just cooked down the scraps with water.

 

[Hazel]

Oh sorry! I misread the post.

But still good info to know. :grin:

 

[soap_rat]

Yes, good info to know, thanks for doing the experiment.

 

[Ruthie]

Thanks for saving us the same problems!

 

[boyago]

Hey Obsidian, I think I am going to rebatch my salt bars and was curious what you meant by "the regular way". Do you mean the difference in just shredding the to be rebatched soap?

I am rebatching mostly because the soap barley lathers at all. I expected a week lather but this soap really needs to be worked to get any at all. I am wanting to try to shed it, and cook it into another a 100% CO batter. Think this will work? If you give me any tips or ideas on this I'd appreciate it. My recipe on the needs to be rebatched part is as follows.

CO 50%
RBO 20%
Castor 10%
Almond 10%
Sunflower 10%

Salt was added at 50% oil weight, I also added 3TBS Oatmeal, 2TBS bentonite and 1TBS powdered kelp.
SF at 10% and scented with frankincense.
Thanks for any input.

 

[MzMolly65]

I can add to this slightly. I tried to rebatch some exfoliant bars I made using cornmeal and discovered the hard way, you cannot rebatch cornmeal in the crock.

The results, corn bread. The cornmeal just absorbed too much of the liquids when it was heated and I suspect it's similar to what's happening with your salt.

 

[Obsidian]

By regular way I mean grating it and cooking it down with a little water, like you would do when rebatching a non salt soap. I figured out what happened to this batch, by adding water and cooking it, I basically was salting out the soap. It removed the glycerin and made a horrible nasty texture. I had to toss the whole mess out, it was useless.

If you need to fix you salt bars, grate them into a fine powder and add that directly into a lightly traced 100% CO batter. I do one part powder to 2 part new batter. You can add in more salt if needed, I usually go with 50% of the new batter. I tried a 50/50 old/new mix once, it worked but was really thick and there was no room for new salt. The bars are exceptionally ugly too.

If you cook the salty batter, the salt will dissolve and you will be left with a mess. Alternately, you can HP the new batter and add in the grated bars and salt after the cook. Unless you just love HP, there is no need to cook anything when rebatching a salt bar, it really works wonderfully to do CP.

 

[paillo]

Sorry MzMolly, but your post about cornbread made me snort cheeseball on my keyboard, oh my, how funny to visualize it

 

[boyago]

If you need to fix you salt bars, grate them into a fine powder and add that directly into a lightly traced 100% CO batter. I do one part powder to 2 part new batter. You can add in more salt if needed, I usually go with 50% of the new batter. I tried a 50/50 old/new mix once, it worked but was really thick and there was no room for new salt. The bars are exceptionally ugly too.

Cool, thank you. So for the new batch I am going to make a 100% CO batter with 50% of it's weight in new salt and adding my old soap now powdered at light trace. Am I picking up what your putting down?

 

[Obsidian]

Yep, you picked it up right. I would add the old soap first then add the salt, if the batter seems to be getting too full, you don't have to add the full amount of salt.
Don't forget to SF the new soap at 20%

 

[MzMolly65]

Sorry MzMolly, but your post about cornbread made me snort cheeseball on my keyboard, oh my, how funny to visualize it

.. and you snorting cheeseball on your computer made me snort water on mine .. so we're even .. LOL .. laughing my cast off!!!

Good thing you didn't snort that cheeseball out your nose .. OUCH!!

.. and back to your regular programing schedule!!

Thanks Obsidian for the info on how to rebatch salt bars.

 

[vuladams]

By regular way I mean grating it and cooking it down with a little water, like you would do when rebatching a non salt soap. I figured out what happened to this batch, by adding water and cooking it, I basically was salting out the soap. It removed the glycerin and made a horrible nasty texture. I had to toss the whole mess out, it was useless.

If you need to fix you salt bars, grate them into a fine powder and add that directly into a lightly traced 100% CO batter. I do one part powder to 2 part new batter. You can add in more salt if needed, I usually go with 50% of the new batter. I tried a 50/50 old/new mix once, it worked but was really thick and there was no room for new salt. The bars are exceptionally ugly too.

If you cook the salty batter, the salt will dissolve and you will be left with a mess. Alternately, you can HP the new batter and add in the grated bars and salt after the cook. Unless you just love HP, there is no need to cook anything when rebatching a salt bar, it really works wonderfully to do CP.

I wish I read this about 10 hours ago... I'm running into a crumbly mess problem with my rebatched salt bars. I'm now on the second round of rebatching. I added more new soap, but not 50/50. I think I'll change gears a bit now. Thanks!

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I basically was salting out the soap..."

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read your story. The water in the rebatch dissolved enough salt to turn the water into a saturated salt solution. The soap precipitated out of the salt solution and formed little balls or curds, just like you explained. Even a coconut oil soap will do this if the salt content is high enough.

Bummer....! roblem:

 

[vuladams]

Salt Bars are FINALLY rebatched!!!
It took me three tries to figure it out, and there are some things I'll do differently with the next batch from my bucket of salt bar "crumbles".

Tip: Grate the salt bars with the fine side of the grater. When making new soap: use 100% CO, 20% SF, with a 50% ratio of salt bar rebatch. So, if the new soap is 10oz, then add only 5oz of grated rebatched salt bar. (Measure by weight, not volume.) Pour once you're at light trace to get a smoother bar. The consistency was a lot like cooked oatmeal.

I made some mistakes with the new bars, which is why the edges are crumbly, but that's my own error for getting a little too creative with salt on the top and bottom.

I had some overheating from the FO on the right messy bar, so I had to pop it in the freezer for a bit, which created some small oil pockets; but not a big deal since they're for personal use. (The dark spots are cocoa powder.) I had this happen once before and hope it will re-absorb. These are freshly cut at 7 hours old.

Now, to get through the rest of my "salt bar crumbles" bucket! I have about 2 quarts left to rebatch. LOL

 

[vuladams]

I went ahead and started a success thread because this info is so important and helpful!!! Thanks obsidian!!!

 

[Obsidian]

They look really good and I'm glad to have helped. Another thing you can do with your crumbles if they are fine enough, put them in a plastic shaker jar like what grated Parmesan comes in. It make a quick hand washing powder.

 

[vuladams]

Good idea! Thanks!

 

[LolaFalana]

This post is heaven-sent! I unmolded my salt bars after hours in silicone molds only to find them crumbling and "leaking". I was going to rebatch my regular way tonight. Thank you for this post.