Question about liquid soap base

[nyowusukoranteng]

I produced a liquid soap base with KOH and vegetable oil. At the end of the process, it was translucent and jelly. I then diluted it with water and salt but it turned into pieces of whitish substances. Did i miss anything in the production of the liquid soap base? I need help

 

[lsg]

Did you use hot water to dilute the soap base?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-liquid-soap-paste-is-not-diluting.85878/

 

[DeeAnna]

You've given us almost no useful information. Please share your recipe giving the weights of ALL ingredients (don't mix percentages with weights!). It would also be good to know the method you used to make the soap. And a photo of the diluted soap would be helpful.

My guess at the moment is there is too much fat present in the soap. A thick white layer floating on top of a separate layer of clear amber soap is usually a sign of this problem. In a really bad case, there might not be any clear soap at all.

Some soap recipes require you to add an acid after the soap is diluted. If you add too much acid to the soap, the same problem can happen -- a thick white layer floating on top of the soap.

But I'm just guessing here.

 

[nyowusukoranteng]

Did you use hot water to dilute the soap base?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-liquid-soap-paste-is-not-diluting.85878/

No

 

[nyowusukoranteng]

You've given us almost no useful information. Please share your recipe giving the weights of ALL ingredients (don't mix percentages with weights!). It would also be good to know the method you used to make the soap. And a photo of the diluted soap would be helpful.

My guess at the moment is there is too much fat present in the soap. A thick white layer floating on top of a separate layer of clear amber soap is usually a sign of this problem. In a really bad case, there might not be any clear soap at all.

Some soap recipes require you to add an acid after the soap is diluted. If you add too much acid to the soap, the same problem can happen -- a thick white layer floating on top of the soap.

But I'm just guessing here.

Kindly find below the recipe i used to produced the liquid soap base concentrate

• Vegetable Oil (Frytol Vegetable Oil): 150g
• Potassium Hydroxide (KOH): 50g
• Distilled Water: 150g
  I prepared the potassium hydroxide (KOH) solution by pouring the KOH pellets into distilled water while stirring. It heated up and I allowed it to cool to about 43 Degrees Celcius. I heated the oil to about 43 degrees Celsius. I then poured the KOH solution into the oil while stirring until the mixture emulsified taking a custard-like consistency. I left it over night and it became very thick. I then added warm water while stirring. After a while, it became transluscent and jelly as shown in the picture I've uploaded with a lot of foam on top. I allowed it to sit for another day and all the foam cleared leaving the liquid soap base. I then tried to dilute it with salt and water and it resulted in the whitish substance in the uploaded image

 

[DeeAnna]

Okay, so your basic recipe has some issues.

Frytol, according to what I see on the internet, is a mix of rapeseed, palm, and sunflower oils. I calculated your recipe several ways and the highest KOH weight I've gotten is about 35 grams to saponify 150 grams of Frytol. That 35 g KOH is based on assuming the Frytol is all palm oil (of the three fats, palm has the highest saponification value of about 0.142), 0% superfat, and 85% KOH purity.

Did you check this recipe using a so@p recipe calculator? If you used someone else's recipe without verifying the numbers, did that recipe call for adding an acid to neutralize the excess KOH? In other words, where did the 50 gram weight come from?

A 3:1 water:lye ratio (25% lye concentration) is fine for making liquid soap, so the 150 g water you used seems reasonable when using 50 g KOH.

Don't dilute with salt water. Dilute with PLAIN water, no salt. Salt is for thickening soap, not for diluting it. By using salt water, you're trying to dilute the soap paste and thicken it all at the same time. This will not work. Dilute first. Thicken after dilution.

Also are you using table salt -- sodium chloride, NaCl? Or another type of salt?

 

[nyowusukoranteng]

Okay, so your basic recipe has some issues.

Frytol, according to what I see on the internet, is a mix of rapeseed, palm, and sunflower oils. I calculated your recipe several ways and the highest KOH weight I've gotten is about 35 grams to saponify 150 grams of Frytol. That 35 g KOH is based on assuming the Frytol is all palm oil (of the three fats, palm has the highest saponification value of about 0.142), 0% superfat, and 85% KOH purity.

Did you check this recipe using a so@p recipe calculator? If you used someone else's recipe without verifying the numbers, did that recipe call for adding an acid to neutralize the excess KOH? In other words, where did the 50 gram weight come from?

A 3:1 water:lye ratio (25% lye concentration) is fine for making liquid soap, so the 150 g water you used seems reasonable when using 50 g KOH.

Don't dilute with salt water. Dilute with PLAIN water, no salt. Salt is for thickening soap, not for diluting it. By using salt water, you're trying to dilute the soap paste and thicken it all at the same time. This will not work. Dilute first. Thicken after dilution.

Also are you using table salt -- sodium chloride, NaCl? Or another type of salt?

What oils can i use to get the best liquid soap base which is translucent, high lathering and jelly-like. Also, who can i calculate the amount of KOH to use with a specific quantity of oil

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I prepared the potassium hydroxide (KOH) solution by pouring the KOH pellets into distilled water while stirring. It heated up and I allowed it to cool to about 43 Degrees Celcius. I heated the oil to about 43 degrees Celsius.

Combine when oils are 160°F (71°C) and lye solution is 140°F (60°C). Stir by hand, then Stick Blend (on and off) to trace 10 - 15 minutes or up to 45 minutes or longer over LOW heat. Maintain temp at 160°F (71°C) until trace occurs. Let sit 5 minutes off heat to make sure it doesn’t separate.

I then poured the KOH solution into the oil while stirring until the mixture emulsified taking a custard-like consistency. I left it over night and it became very thick.

Bring the paste to hard trace. Then either let it set for 1-2 weeks to finish saponification (CP) OR do HP (Hot Process) in a crockpot or range top in a stainless steel pot.

I then added warm water while stirring.

Before diluting you need to test to be sure the batch is fully saponified. You can do this using phenolphthalein drops, the soap-in-water clarity test or at the very least, the tongue test to make sure the paste tests neutral.

I allowed it to sit for another day and all the foam cleared leaving the liquid soap base.

Keep a spray bottle of 70% - 90% isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol handy to lightly spritz any foam that appears. Works like magic!

What oils can i use to get the best liquid soap base which is translucent, high lathering and jelly-like.

START WITH A SMALL TEST BATCH: I highly recommend using 12 oz. oils for your first batch, preferably 50/50 Coconut Oil plus Liquid oil(s) of choice. Coconut oil saponifies easily, is high lathering, and makes crystal clear LS. So does Castor Oil but you don't need much of that. For other oils:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/what-to-expect-from-various-oils-in-ls.62864/
12 oz oils makes 16 oz. of soap base, and 36-48 oz. of Liquid Soap (depending on the amount of water added at dilution). Plenty for a first attempt.

You can get a jelly-like consistency by diluting with only enough water to reach the viscosity you prefer. However, that means you will be wasting soap down the drain because it takes more water to rinse it off cleanly. It is better to dilute the paste to the optimum amount. This results in watery LS but that is just the nature of the beast. It still has excellent lather that rinses quickly, clean as a whistle with no soapy residue.

I then tried to dilute it with salt and water and it resulted in the whitish substance in the uploaded image

Adding brine (salt water) to LS generally doesn't work to thicken LS formulas that contain more than 20% coconut oil or other hard oil. It works VERY well for 100% olive oil LS and that is what it is usually used for.

Check out Alaiyna B's Blogspot to learn more about the Basics. Keep in mind, there are about as many different ways to make LS as there are LS-ers! So you can expect a variety of answers to any questions you may have. It's best to post in the Recipe Feedback Forum. Please include a printout of your lye calculation and your method to help us help you troubleshoot any issue you may have.

Welcome to SMF and HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[nyowusukoranteng]

Bring the paste to hard trace. Then either let it set for 1-2 weeks to finish saponification (CP) OR do HP (Hot Process) in a crockpot or range top in a stainless steel pot.

Which process is recommended, hot or cold process?

 

[nyowusukoranteng]

I produced another batch of liquid soap base with 100g of coconut oil, 100g of sunflower oil and 50g of KOH. I used the process outlined above and below is the results as shown in the picture. Its a whitish solid substance and its not getting jelly and transparent. What can i do t get it jelly and transparent? Does it have to do with the oils i used

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Did you check this recipe using a so@p recipe calculator?

The only way we can continue to try and help you is if you share the printout of your recipe calculation. I use SoapCalc.