please help !

[pai]

I have been trying to make 100% coconut oil soap. this is the third try and each time they "zap" or kind of burn my tongue. I have had success using other oils but this one..... the soap looks amazing- so white and uniform. for the life of me i cannot understand what i am doing wrong.
this is what i do
925 gram coconut oil
277.5 gram water (30%)
135 gram lye ( 20% SF)
heated the oil to 55 degree C and mixed in the lye solution when at
same temperature. i mixed till quite heavy trace, which took about 20
minutes and poured into mold. insulated it and took it out 29 hours
later.
Am i doing something wrong??
:crazy:

 

[onugs]

Other then using less water then needed, not sure.

 

[lsg]

I ran your recipe through SoapCalc and your lye seems right. I am assuming that your scale is working correctly. Make sure that the lye is fully dissolved in the water. You may have some undissolved lye in the soap. Give the soap you just made a couple of weeks to cure and test it again.

 

[sososo]

An other possible explanation: maybe the lye was less than 99% purity.

 

[pai]

thanks for the replies. yes, not all the lye was dissolved so i sieved it- just like in my other soaps which were successful. the PH paper is showing acidity 8. will wait a little longer. maybe my tongue is sensitive to coconut oil?.....mmmm
still confused.

 

[pai]

An other possible explanation: maybe the lye was less than 99% purity.

this is highly possible but i used the same lye in my other batches and it was fine so why only in pure coconut oil is it making this problem?
i get the coconut oil from a farm which makes its own. could it be the oil? will first press coconut oil need different amounts of lye?
this is driving me crazy!

 

[Saswede]

Not sure of how fine the sieve was, Pai, but is it possible that some undissolved lye could pass through it?
I generally stir the lye until its all dissolved, and even add a little extra water to dissolve it all if necessary (although the chemistry text books say that NaOH can be dissolved in very low volumes of water, that doesn't always seem to be the case). My thinking is that the extra water will evaporate during the cure, but lye crystals in the soap won't go away - so I'd rather err on the side of caution.


Sent from my iPad using Soap Making

 

[pai]

Not sure of how fine the sieve was, Pai, but is it possible that some undissolved lye could pass through it?
I generally stir the lye until its all dissolved, and even add a little extra water to dissolve it all if necessary (although the chemistry text books say that NaOH can be dissolved in very low volumes of water, that doesn't always seem to be the case). My thinking is that the extra water will evaporate during the cure, but lye crystals in the soap won't go away - so I'd rather err on the side of caution.

ok i'm on it. tomorrow i will make a small batch with the recommended 38% water and will report my result.
thank you all for your help!

 

[sistrum]

Your water amount is just fine. Adding more is not going to change anything as long as you're stirring enough to be sure it's dissolved. I would think its more like you said about homemade coconut oil having a different sap value than what your soap calulator says.

 

[Robert]

An other possible explanation: maybe the lye was less than 99% purity.

But the impurities would be unlikely to "bite your tongue".

 

[Robert]

the PH paper is showing acidity 8.

How are you using the pH paper?

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the chemistry text books say that NaOH can be dissolved in very low volumes of water..."

Maybe you're thinking of table salt -- NaCl -- but this is not correct for sodium hydroxide -- NaOH. The general rule is to use more water by weight than NaOH to make a fully dissolved solution. The practical limit is a 50% solution -- the same weight of water as NaOH. If you use more NaOH than water, you will not be able to dissolve all the NaOH.

"...maybe the lye was less than 99% purity...."

Only lab grade NaOH is that pure -- most soapers will be using technical or food grade NaOH in the 95% to 97% purity. In any case, lower purity would make the soap less likely to zap, not more likely, wouldn't it?

 

[bodhi]

Your water amount is just fine. Adding more is not going to change anything as long as you're stirring enough to be sure it's dissolved. I would think its more like you said about homemade coconut oil having a different sap value than what your soap calulator says.

I agree with this and the post DeeAnna made about lye. If the lye isnt dissolving, adding more water wont matter. Unless of course you are using less water than it takes to dissolve the lye. ie, less water than lye.

Regarding the sap values and home made oils. There is a difference, but if you are using a calculator you shouldnt have a problem with that. If anything there would be an extra superfat to account for and not a lye excess.

My guess is that either the tongue is more sensitive to coconut as you -or someone-suggested, or you are still getting undissolved lye in your soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Hmmmm.... After re-reading the posts, I am beginning to think what you are tasting is the flavor of coconut oil soap ... not a zap.

CO soap has a bitter, sour, metallic taste to me. Not particularly nice, but not horrible. Would taste it again if I had to, but I would prefer not to.

A zap, on the other hand, causes an instant, involuntary "EEEWWW" reaction. My head will jerk back in surprise, and there is a sharp, unpleasant electrical feel on my tongue. I sometimes even rinse my mouth with water to get rid of the taste. I definitely do not want to repeat the experience.

Which are you experiencing -- an "I can tolerate but do not like this" reaction or a YIKES! YOWZA! kind of thing?

 

[pai]

Your water amount is just fine. Adding more is not going to change anything as long as you're stirring enough to be sure it's dissolved. I would think its more like you said about homemade coconut oil having a different sap value than what your soap calulator says.

thanks sistrum, just saw this before making another try! any idea of how i can calculate or find the saponification value of this oil? i really want to use THIS oil as i get it for free from an organic farm to transform into soap and they have basically unlimited amounts. MUST.FIND.SAP.VAL........

 

[pai]

Hmmmm.... After re-reading the posts, I am beginning to think what you are tasting is the flavor of coconut oil soap ... not a zap.

CO soap has a bitter, sour, metallic taste to me. Not particularly nice, but not horrible. Would taste it again if I had to, but I would prefer not to.

A zap, on the other hand, causes an instant, involuntary "EEEWWW" reaction. My head will jerk back in surprise, and there is a sharp, unpleasant electrical feel on my tongue. I sometimes even rinse my mouth with water to get rid of the taste. I definitely do not want to repeat the experience.

Which are you experiencing -- an "I can tolerate but do not like this" reaction or a YIKES! YOWZA! kind of thing?

just went to have another lick. so -at first i just taste the soap taste but after 2 seconds i get a burning/tingeling sensation on my tongue. i dont get that from the other soaps.....

and robert - i use the PH paper like this- take a bit of soap and wet it with filtered water(other wise it doesnt "read") and touch the paper to it. is that ok?

 

[judymoody]

I would wait a week or two and try the zap test again. Perhaps your soap hasn't fully saponified yet.

I remember once I made a very large batch of soap for a swap. I was relatively new to soap making. I used some pricey EOs. I zap tested it and it left a burning sensation on my tongue. The soap looked beautiful. I reviewed my process. I couldn't figure out what went wrong. I made another large batch. Then I realized after the fact that the burn was not from soap but from my EO blend which included clove oil. Oops!

The moral of the story is that sometimes it's not all as it seems. It may be that you don't like the taste and it's not a true zap. Or perhaps your scale might be off and your soap is lye heavy. At 20% SF it shouldn't be. Did you use a fragrance oil or EO? That can also cause odd sensations.

Myself, my skin can't tolerate 100% CO soap, regardless of superfat level. That's just personal. Perhaps your tongue is sensitive.

 

[pai]

Thanks judymoody- i didn't use any EO or color. want to get it right before adding things to it...

i will leave it there for a while more and keep checking.

i will try to see about the saponification value. it seems to me it is either this or undissolved lye that are the problems. but seeing as my other soaps are fine i tend to lean more to the sap value direction. anyone?

 

[DeeAnna]

"...at first i just taste the soap taste but after 2 seconds i get a burning/tingeling sensation..."

A "zap" is instant and clearly unmistakable. I'm thinking you're sensitive to the coconut oil soap.

 

[pai]

good morning everyone,

yesterday i made a small batch of 100%coconut soap with a 40% lye discount, just for experiment's sake. it traced and today i took it out of molds and it was hard and beautiful.SURPRISE! i felt the zap though...

so today i made another batch, with the original calculation but with the recommended amount of water(38%). will report tomorrow on the outcome.

I am doing this so i can finally know for sure if it is the water discount that is ruining my soap or if i am just sensitive to it and the soap is fine.

tomorrow morning we will know for sure
:idea:

ps- robert has asked how i use the PH paper.(i wet a piece of soap a bit then check) how do you guys use it, if at all?