Newbie w 2 part Question on Water & M/P Shea Butter

[AnitaB]

ok I did some research on Distilled water VS Filtered water and I have a filtered system in my home, but I'm still not clear which to use. I'm on a budget and trying to NOT spend if I don't have too.

My 1st question is...Is it ok to use filtered water? Has anyone used it?

My class assignment Hand Milled recipe calls for 2 cups grated unscented commercial soap. I have 1 lb. of goats milk and a couple small pieces of shea butter left over from me trying to make hand soap months ago,(btw it flopped badly). I'm planning on using the goats milk and the shea butter but my hubby was saying the shea butter would turn out too liquidy....

2nd question Would it be ok to add the grated shea to the grated goats milk :?:

 

[pamielynn]

Are you making melt & pour or soap from scratch?

 

[lsg]

You cannot make soap out of shea butter without adding lye. If you are using melt & pour soap, do not add water to it. I am not clear if you are using a cp commercial base or a melt & pour base. In order to answer your question, I would need more facts.

 

[AnitaB]

lsg - My first assignment is a m & p soap base. They were sold in 1lb blocks, but I have a little bit of the shea butter left over and a full lb. of goats milk.

pamelynn - No I'm not making it from scratch.

Anyway I hope I've answered you two's questions. If not ask away, because I don't want to mess this up.

Second assignment is making it from scratch and I'll probably do this one in a few days if not this weekend.

I'm going to try to post or link the assignment here before I leave this morning to take my son for his job orientation.

 

[AnitaB]

ok well I'll have to get back to this later. I gotta get going.

 

[pamielynn]

Ok, let's see....

What is it asking you to do with the water? You should never add water to M&P. Or is this like soap noodles or something where you'd melt down the pressed soap (flakes, noodles, etc), add liquid and put in a mold?

And you want to mix GM soap base to shea butter soap base? Can't think that should be a problem at all. They should melt together just fine if they are M&P. I don't know the answer if you're melting soap noodles - but I think it should still be fine. You're not talking about raw shea butter, right?

But, I'm still confused a bit because you say you'll be making soap from scratch this weekend - are you talking about making soap with lye for that?

 

[kharmon320]

Okay... I think I know what you're asking, but could be wrong.

1. I use my filtered tap water. Never had a problem.
2. Your assignment sounds like it's referring to using a commercial soap (such as Dial, Ivory, etc.) not a melt and pour base. I could be wrong. Handmilling usually involves taking cold process soap, shredding it up, and cooking it with water. After it's all melted you add the fragrance, colorant, etc. Is this the 1st assignment? If so, you shouldn't use a m&p soap base such as a shea butter M&P or a goat milk M&P. Some soap suppliers sell cold process soap noodles that can be remilled. If it truly is a melt and pour assignment, no water should be involved, just melt them both down.
3. You should be able to mix shredded GM and shredded Shea butter soap bases together without a problem.

Could you post a more detailed description of your assignment? That might help.

 

[AnitaB]

I coped & pasted & edited all the unnecessary stuff. I am going to buy a scale and some coconut oil later today. I don't have any orange or lemon essential right now so I thought I'd just use the EO that I already have.

Here's my 1st assignment


Hand Milled Soaps

Time

You can expect to spend 1-2 hours for prep and melting, 1 hour for cooling and shaping. Wait 24 hours for hardening/curing.


Basic Hand Milled Citrus Soap -- Refreshing and Clean-Smelling


Materials
:

• • Two cups of grated commercial soap, unscented, hypo-allergenic
  • One cup infused orange or lemon water
  • Two drops of vitamin E
  • One teaspoon of lemon, orange and grapefruit zest (paper thin pieces, no white)
  • Ten drops of lemon essential oil
  • Ten drops of orange essential oil

Tools

• • Hand grater
  • Double boiler
  • Wooden spoon

Instructions


1 Grate two cups of commercial soap. Set aside.

2 Grate the peel of one lemon, one half of an orange and one quarter of a grapefruit. Set aside.

3 Start double boiler. When bottom half is boiling, add top half.

4 Pour in a cup of infused orange or lemon water.

5 Add grated soap. Melt until no soap flakes remain. Remove from heat.

6 Add all remaining ingredients, stirring with wooden spoon.

7 Cool to touch.

8 Pick up small amounts of the soap, and shape into a ball. Complete with entire
batch.

9 Every few hours, check and re-form for tighter balls of soap.

OPTIONAL: Use a drop or two of essential oil, mixed with transfer oil, such as olive or almond oil, and coat hands before rolling balls further. This will finish them nicely and add shine with a little more scent.


If your first attempt was successful, move to a more difficult type of soap making -- the cold-processed technique.




2nd assignment

Do not rush the process; allow yourself at least two to three hours from start to finish, and several weeks for curing.

Since we are using chemicals, review the precautions in previous lessons before beginning.

Cold-Processed Soap Base -- with your choice of fragrance


Materials

• 13 ounces of Lye
• 30 ounces of cold, clean water (rainwater, distilled water)
• 24 ounces of coconut oil
• 38 ounces of vegetable shortening
• 24 ounces of olive oil
• 2.3 ounces of your selected fragrance essential oil

Tools

• Rubber Gloves
• Goggles
• 2-cup glass container
• Glass bowl, or container large enough to hold 38 ounces or more.
• Scale
• Wooden or stainless steel spoon
• Double boiler
• Two thermometers
• Soap mold

Instructions

1. Work in a well ventilated area.
2. Put on your rubber gloves and goggles.
3. Weigh 13 ounces of lye in a glass container.
4. Weigh 32 ounces of cold water into a glass container.
5. Add lye to the water slowly, stirring with wooden or stainless steel spoon.
6. When lye is dissolved, set aside to cool


NOTE: You did not heat the water and lye mixture. When the lye was dissolved in the water, it produced its own heat by chemical reaction.

7. Place container on scale.

8. Adjust, or allow for weight of empty container, on scale.

9. Weigh 24 ounces of coconut oil.

10. Add to double boiler

11. Weigh 38 ounces of shortening. Add to coconut oil in double boiler.

12. Melt.

13. Remove from heat, add 24 ounces of olive oil, and stir.

14. Cool until the oils are between 95-98 degrees F.

15. Take the temperature of the lye mixture with a separate thermometer; it needs to be in the same 95-98 degrees F range as the oils.


NOTE: You can use a cool water bath, or a hot water bath, to raise or lower the temperature of either mixture. This can be accomplished by filling the bottom of the double boiler with hot or cool water and placing the glass container holding the mixture into the water bath. DO NOT HEAT either mixture with DIRECT HEAT.


16. Stir the mixture just before you take the temperature. It is only when the two ingredients are in the same temperature range that the soap will properly form.


17. Grease mold with shortening while you are waiting for the mixtures to reach the appropriate temperature.

18. With rubber gloves and goggles in place, slowly pour the correct temperature lye mixture into the oils. Stir slowly, until all of the lye mixture has been poured into the oil. Continue to stir for ten minutes.

If your chemical reaction occurs properly, your mixture will take on thicker, creamier characteristics as you stir. After roughly 10 minutes, (depends on fats, and whether or not your soap recipe is accurate), and/or when the soap can be lifted by the spoon and dropped back on itself, leaving a trace of the pattern you dropped, it is considered "at trace". Trace is the ideal time to add fragrance, colorant, or fillers to your soap before the soap becomes so thick that you cannot blend the ingredients properly.

19. Pour into prepared mold. Cure time will be roughly three weeks.

 

[pamielynn]

Ok, you're not doing M&P

You CAN use filtered water, but know that you might have impurities in it. Might affect your soap; probably won't.
For the question about mixing bases - I don't know. It still sounds to me like you're working with two different mediums. Grated commercial soap is different than a melt and pour base.

 

[AnitaB]

Ok, you're not doing M&P

You CAN use filtered water, but know that you might have impurities in it. Might affect your soap; probably won't.
For the question about mixing bases - I don't know. It still sounds to me like you're working with two different mediums. Grated commercial soap is different than a melt and pour base.

So you think I should buy some store bought brand like ivory or something?

 

[Relle]

Your Cold Process instructions -

Do not stir your lye with a wooden spoon, in can splinter and don't add your lye to water in a glass container it could shatter.

 

[AnitaB]

Relle, what do you suggest to use?

 

[lsg]

So you think I should buy some store bought brand like ivory or something?

I would not use Ivory because it has a lot air whipped into it. Use Camay or something similar.
I would use a heavy plastic pitcher or stainless steel pitcher to mix lye for the cold process.

 

[pamielynn]

Why do you want to use commercial soap at all? It has no glycerin left in it. Are you just doing it for the class? If so, I agree with the above post - Ivory is terrible for just about everything

And if you are going to do the cp process (especially if you like it and want to make more) it's worth the couple of bucks to get a plastic pitcher and some silicone spatulas. Walmart carries both.

 

[AnitaB]

I would not use Ivory because it has a lot air whipped into it. Use Camay or something similar.
I would use a heavy plastic pitcher or stainless steel pitcher to mix lye for the cold process.

Well I went and purchase some ivory bars and my scale at Wal Mart before seeing your post. LOL and certainly not going to drive back into town (20 minutes away) just to exchange 3 packages of $.99 soap. I'm making it for myself anyway. The main things I need & want in my soaps are good lathering, great smell and something that doesn't make my itch so I can eliminate having to put lotion on all the time.

I can understand why not to use the glass bowls, I have a stanless steel I can use as well as a SS spoon.

I'm going to make my first assignment later ths morning and I'll post some pictures and results. Wish me luck :razz:

 

[pamielynn]

Ha,ha! Sorry about that. I'm sure it will come out just fine. Take your time and try to understand your process. Show us pics - we'd love to see them.

 

[AnitaB]

I apologize for being a day late, but anyway here is a picture of the m & p (I guess that's what it is). It's a lemon -orange soap ball that was my assignment. I don't like this method at all! As far as the lemon smell I don't like it either! It's ugly & stinks! The recipe made 3 which are still curing, (I think) for another couple weeks. They are a little firmer than yesterday.

Any Hoo.... my hubby pushed me into making my 2nd assignment. So we did. I really think this will prove better results that the first one. Besides I love the scent that I had on hand, "Island Temptations". My favorites are anything tropical or coconuts, mango's, etc. Tomorrow I can post a pix of the soap after I cut it. I can't wait to take it out of my homemade mold of my Almond milk carton lol, real handy and best of all, Cheap!!

So here's the ugly soap ball. I'll probably use it in the kitchen after its ready to use for removing onions and garlic off my hands.


http://www.shutterfly.com/lightbox/view.sfly?fid=6a193569e6e9be666cbbd47cbb382743


Sorry I don't know how to get the pictures in here. If someone knows, please tell me how.....Thanks!

 

[AnitaB]

Hubby Cracked Up my soap

Oh my! Yes you read correctly! My hubby kept going back and looking at the soap that we made yesterday. This morning I just peaked in and the top is definitely cracked. I'd say he was worse than a child, he just couldn't leave it alone. Oh well I guess we are learning what NOT to do to our soaps

 

[kharmon320]

Well, he probably didn't cause the crack by peaking, but you can blame him if you want. The cracking on top may have been from the soap overheating while in the mold. It happens. It really is neat to watch the soap go through it's steps in the beginning. Once it heats up, it can go through a very visible "gel" phase where it is more translucent looking (darker). Many people miss this if they wrap the soaps up really nice and tuck them in for the night. You just don't see it happening, but most likely is happening due to the insulation, etc.

What type of mold did you use? If it cracked due to overheating, it may need less insulation for that mold/recipe. Each recipe (and the fragrance oils) can cause the soap to gel faster, etc. Wooden molds typically insulate better, while individual molds need more insulation. Did you wrap the mold up after you poured the soap to hold in the heat?

 

[AnitaB]

Well, he probably didn't cause the crack by peaking, but you can blame him if you want. The cracking on top may have been from the soap overheating while in the mold. It happens. It really is neat to watch the soap go through it's steps in the beginning. Once it heats up, it can go through a very visible "gel" phase where it is more translucent looking (darker). Many people miss this if they wrap the soaps up really nice and tuck them in for the night. You just don't see it happening, but most likely is happening due to the insulation, etc.

What type of mold did you use? If it cracked due to overheating, it may need less insulation for that mold/recipe. Each recipe (and the fragrance oils) can cause the soap to gel faster, etc. Wooden molds typically insulate better, while individual molds need more insulation. Did you wrap the mold up after you poured the soap to hold in the heat?

Hi Kerrie!

Well I did see it get darker for a little while and was thinking that was very strange. But if you say it's normal then I will run with it. Anyway I grabbed an empty 1/2 gal milk carton out of the recycle bin and cleaned it up. I didn't do any wrapping, just left it open on the patio table overnight. I will take some pix tonight after I un-mold and cut into bars,then put away for curing. How can I prevent the crackng? I used the milk carton because it was free & I haven't gotten a proper mold yet. I can buy a little hear & there when I have extra $$. But mainly I just want to make it for us right now.