Making lye water in advance.
- Thread starter Wilster98
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Discouraging necro posting is not something that's peculiar to SMF. And it is discussed n the forum rules -- see http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=574424&postcount=2.
To answer your question, Sweetbean, for this particular instance --
The person who necro-posted in this thread today asked a question, "...what do y'all mix your lye and water in?"
Why is this necro-post a less than optimum choice?
The title of this necro'ed thread is "Making lye water in advance". If I'm not interested in yet another thread on masterbatching lye, I'm probably going to skip over this thread. That's pretty true of a lot of folks. So the necro-posted question is going to be overlooked, not because people don't care, but because they aren't being cued appropriately by the title of the thread.
If the person had asked this question in a NEW thread with an appropriate title such as "Best container for mixing lye", the question is more likely to get noticed by more people who have answers relevant to the question. Wouldn't it be nice if the question could be easily found by more people who are willing and able to give an answer, not just a few folks here and there?
What's just as important, a thread that has a relevant title is more likely to get read by new soapers who can really benefit from the answers. This particular necro-posted question happens to be one that gets asked a lot. Wouldn't it be nice if this question and its answers could be easily found by other people who might really need the answers?
I could go on, but I think these are the two key reasons why necro-posting this particular question in this particular thread was not the best idea. Understandable, yes, but not overly helpful to the question asker as well as to everyone else.
edit: To Sweetbean and Maevyn -- You're new to the party and still getting used to the social structure of the people on this forum. It's easy when a person is the "new kid on the block" to feel uncomfortable, but if you stick with us for a bit longer, I think you'll find we're actually a pretty nice group of people.
I use a hard plastic cup to mix my lye solution. It has etched at the water line. If I'm going to store the solution, I put it in a glass mason jar. I've never stored it for more than a couple of days, and the jar seems fine. My plastic cup is too small for frozen cubes of milk, though, so if I'm making goat milk soap, I use a glass jar. No etching that I've noticed.
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Please do not store lye in glass. Over time the lye will etch the glass, making it weak and prone to shatter. Only store lye in heat resistant plastic with a 2 or 5 in the recycle symbol.
To Maevyn and sweetbean- only Admins can delete an account, but I encourage you both to stick around. 
Is our forum perfect? No, because people on the whole are not perfect, but having been a member of several soap-making forum/communities over the years, I can truly say that the group of folks that we have here is the best I've ever run into on any of them put together, and I truly hope you will decide to stay so that we can get to know each other better. I'm not sure if you have had the chance to read our "Forum Culture & Tone" stickie in the Rules/Annnouncements section of the forum yet, but it was written to help avoid/diffuse/bring understanding to situations such as this. Here is a link to it: SMF Forum Culture and Tone
Re: necroposting: Ditto what DeeAnna said^^^. The biggest problem I see with necroposting is that the newer question gets lost in the mix, thereby resulting in a severely diminished chance of it ever being viewed/answered. Posting it in a new thread instead puts a beaming spotlight on it that will generate more views and answers.
Case in point- I skipped right over this thread/refrained from opening it until today because I was limited on time and I saw that it had plenty of replies to it already. Unfortunately, little did I know that mostly all those replies dated back to 2011. I only opened it this morning because I had some extra time on my hands. If it were not for that, though, I don't think I would ever have opened it, because when I happened to have glanced over at its "Last Post" box, I saw that the last poster was an experienced member and I knew the OP had most assuredly been given excellent advice.
I master-batch my lye solution all the time, and I mix it in a tall pitcher made out of PP(polypropylene) #5 plastic.
Ditto what kchaystack said. ^^^ Mixing/storing lye solution in glass is not recommended (you do so at your own risk). You may not notice any etching now, but just wait. Please see question #4 in post #1 of this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56833.
And also see this article on how alkaline and acid solutions lead to corrosion of glass: http://corrosion-doctors.org/Household/Glass.htm
The reason why we so greatly discourage using glass is because we've had several soapers report that their glass/Pyrex mixing vessels shattered on them either when mixing lye in them, or when mixing soap batter in them. Better to be safe than sorry.
Not all plastics are equal when it comes to mixing/storing lye solution, and some are outright not compatible at all. I mix mine in PP#5 and store in HDPE#2. Both are lye-compatible.
IrishLass
Is our forum perfect? No, because people on the whole are not perfect, but having been a member of several soap-making forum/communities over the years, I can truly say that the group of folks that we have here is the best I've ever run into on any of them put together, and I truly hope you will decide to stay so that we can get to know each other better. I'm not sure if you have had the chance to read our "Forum Culture & Tone" stickie in the Rules/Annnouncements section of the forum yet, but it was written to help avoid/diffuse/bring understanding to situations such as this. Here is a link to it: SMF Forum Culture and Tone Re: necroposting: Ditto what DeeAnna said^^^. The biggest problem I see with necroposting is that the newer question gets lost in the mix, thereby resulting in a severely diminished chance of it ever being viewed/answered. Posting it in a new thread instead puts a beaming spotlight on it that will generate more views and answers.
Case in point- I skipped right over this thread/refrained from opening it until today because I was limited on time and I saw that it had plenty of replies to it already. Unfortunately, little did I know that mostly all those replies dated back to 2011. I only opened it this morning because I had some extra time on my hands. If it were not for that, though, I don't think I would ever have opened it, because when I happened to have glanced over at its "Last Post" box, I saw that the last poster was an experienced member and I knew the OP had most assuredly been given excellent advice.
.HappyHenrySoap said:
I master-batch my lye solution all the time, and I mix it in a tall pitcher made out of PP(polypropylene) #5 plastic.
AsanaSoap said:
Ditto what kchaystack said. ^^^ Mixing/storing lye solution in glass is not recommended (you do so at your own risk). You may not notice any etching now, but just wait. Please see question #4 in post #1 of this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56833.
And also see this article on how alkaline and acid solutions lead to corrosion of glass: http://corrosion-doctors.org/Household/Glass.htm
The reason why we so greatly discourage using glass is because we've had several soapers report that their glass/Pyrex mixing vessels shattered on them either when mixing lye in them, or when mixing soap batter in them. Better to be safe than sorry.
Not all plastics are equal when it comes to mixing/storing lye solution, and some are outright not compatible at all. I mix mine in PP#5 and store in HDPE#2. Both are lye-compatible.
IrishLass
Even if you don't believe NaOH etches glass, I'd like you to think about the fact that glass breaks, etching or no etching. If you go to an industrial analytical lab, you'll see that chemicals that can be stored in plastic will be in plastic containers. There are some chemicals that have to be in glass, but those glass containers are often covered with plastic mesh sleeves or other coating designed to minimize the hazards from breakage.
If a plastic container of lye is knocked off the counter and happens to split open or the lid pop off, at least the danger is limited to the lye solution itself. If the container is glass, the danger is greatly multiplied. If you think NaOH on unbroken skin is bad ... you don't want to think about what it's like to get NaOH in a cut. Even if there are no injuries, cleanup is more dangerous and difficult due to the glass shards in the NaOH solution.
When working with dangerous chemicals, a person HAS to plan for the worst case situation -- it's a foolish idea to assume accidents won't happen. Store lye solution in plastic, please!
If a plastic container of lye is knocked off the counter and happens to split open or the lid pop off, at least the danger is limited to the lye solution itself. If the container is glass, the danger is greatly multiplied. If you think NaOH on unbroken skin is bad ... you don't want to think about what it's like to get NaOH in a cut. Even if there are no injuries, cleanup is more dangerous and difficult due to the glass shards in the NaOH solution.
When working with dangerous chemicals, a person HAS to plan for the worst case situation -- it's a foolish idea to assume accidents won't happen. Store lye solution in plastic, please!
I mix 1-2 gallons of 50/50 at a time in #2 HDPE buckets that are set in an ice bath in the sink. They will get quite soft from the heat in not in an ice bath. I then transfer to #5 gallon containers. The transfer part is the most dangerous for me so I use a very wide funnel all is done in the sink. On days I do not feel really strong I transfer to 2 qt pitchers then into my gallon bottles. Not the safest since every transfer is a chance of a spill but it works for me. I simply do not have patience for making small batches of lye.
Lye etches glass, and will absorb carbon dioxide from the air and turn into sodium (or potassium) carbonate, which will NOT make soap. This is where "soda ash" on cold process soap comes from -- the free unreacted lye reacts with carbon dioxide instead of fatty acids.
The problem with Pyrex is mostly that since the early 80's Pyrex isn't really Pyrex borosilicate glass anymore, someone got all wound up that it would leach boron into food (which is extremely unlikely -- unless you are eating your soap or drinking neutralized lye....) and everything now labeled "pyrex" is just normal tempered glass. Tempered glass is notorious for shattering with temperature extremes, and the etching you get from lye won't help with that as it produces "nucleation sites" for microcracks that turn into macro cracks and the container shatters. I don't recommend glass baking dishes for this reason, either -- too many injuries from shattering baking dishes when removed from the oven and placed on something cool.
So if you do want to make up lye solution ahead of time, you need a plastic container that will not allow carbon dioxide to pass through. That means heavy HDPE with a good air-tight seal. It will degrade with time, so don't plan to store it for months.
Same thing for dry lye -- make sure you keep the lid sealed. The lye will absorb both water and carbon dioxide from the air -- water makes lumps, CO2 makes carbonate. KOH is so bad about the CO2 that it's usually sold as 90%, the balance is potassium carbonate amongst other things.
The problem with Pyrex is mostly that since the early 80's Pyrex isn't really Pyrex borosilicate glass anymore, someone got all wound up that it would leach boron into food (which is extremely unlikely -- unless you are eating your soap or drinking neutralized lye....) and everything now labeled "pyrex" is just normal tempered glass. Tempered glass is notorious for shattering with temperature extremes, and the etching you get from lye won't help with that as it produces "nucleation sites" for microcracks that turn into macro cracks and the container shatters. I don't recommend glass baking dishes for this reason, either -- too many injuries from shattering baking dishes when removed from the oven and placed on something cool.
So if you do want to make up lye solution ahead of time, you need a plastic container that will not allow carbon dioxide to pass through. That means heavy HDPE with a good air-tight seal. It will degrade with time, so don't plan to store it for months.
Same thing for dry lye -- make sure you keep the lid sealed. The lye will absorb both water and carbon dioxide from the air -- water makes lumps, CO2 makes carbonate. KOH is so bad about the CO2 that it's usually sold as 90%, the balance is potassium carbonate amongst other things.
