Gelling or Not Gelling

[islandgirl88]

Can someone please help me understand why you may want to gel your batch and why you may not want to?

I guess i don't understand the difference in the end result.

The CP soap class i took didnt actually go over gelling (which kind of annoyed me). I didnt even find out about it until i started reading more about CP process online.

But i still can't figure out when you would want to gel or not gel.

Thanks!

 

[FOhoarder]

Here's a great video to watch.....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD7aC4t75w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD7aC4t75w[/ame]

In fact she has ALL great videos so check them out!

 

[new12soap]

Hopefully someone with more experience and a broader knowledge base will come along soon, but in the meantime I will share what little I know...

Gel phase is what happens when the chemical reaction of the saponification process reaches a certain temperature, and the soap takes on the appearance of vaseline. It's all part of the lye interacting with the fat to create soap. That's why you sometimes insulate CP soap, to help the temperature bring the soap to gel, or you sometimes put it in the oven. I hot process in the crockpot, so I force my soap through the gel phase to completely saponify it before I pour it into molds.

The problem with the gel phase with certain soaps is the temperature. If you are making a soap higher in sugars, like a milk soap or a beer soap, or something with honey, the higher temps can carmelize or even burn the sugars, making the soap a darker color, changing the scent, or even potentially scorching the soap. In that case you may not want your soap to gel, so you would pop it in the fridge or freezer to cool the temperature and drastically slow down the initial saponification process. Your soap will still "cure" and fully saponify, it may just take a little longer.

I am sure there are other reasons, too, but that is my basic understanding of the gel phase.

ETA: Oops! Sorry FOHoarder, I thought I was the first responder. See? Someone else more knowledgeable came along

 

[islandgirl88]

Thank you both! I watched the video and that helped a little. I want a creamier look to my bars, so i'm guessing that i should probably not gel my soap then?

The ones we did in class i am pretty sure didn't gel and they are crumbly now. I'm scared of that happening again if it doesn't gel. I am making larger batches now. The one from class was 1 lb i'm doing 2.5 lb now. should that make a difference?

 

[Genny]

I gel some of my soaps and try to stop gel in some others. But I've never had any of my non gelled soaps be crumbly.

As far as the 1 lb vs 2.5 lb batches go. With a 1 lb batch there's greater room for weighing error in a lb batch. Which means it's easier to make your soap lye heavy with a 1 lb batch.

Also, the creamy look to your soaps will depend on the oils/butters used.

I find that it's not as easy as it sounds to prevent gelling. Some recipes or fo's will gel no matter what you do, even if it's just a partial gel.

 

[youreapima2]

Here's a great video to watch.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD7aC4t75w

In fact she has ALL great videos so check them out!

Thanks FOhoarder she also had a great video on whipping soap! I always wanted to learn to make that, and tried on my own and failed!

 

[islandgirl88]

Well the ingredients in the soap we made for our class were measured (volume) rather than weighed. So i could see how those could be lye heavy anyway.

This is the only game in town as far as soap supplies and classes. I have lost a lot of faith in them.

 

[Genny]

Well the ingredients in the soap we made for our class were measured (volume) rather than weighed. So i could see how those could be lye heavy anyway.

This is the only game in town as far as soap supplies and classes. I have lost a lot of faith in them.

Yikes! Yeah, they really should be weighed for more accuracy.

 

[IrishLass]

I mostly gel, but in the few batches I've done that did not gel, the resulting soap has always been as soft as cream cheese upon unmolding and quite crumbly if cut too soon. For this reason, it's best to wait 48 hours or so before unmolding and cutting it, or you can stick it in the freezer or fridge to firm up a bit first.

The size of your batch doesn't matter in terms of deciding whether to gel or not, or whether it turns out crumbly or not, although smaller batches may need a little bit more help to encourage gel along. Crumbling is normally formula-related or just a simple matter of having cut the soap at the wrong time.

How old is the soap that you made in your class? I ask because the older the ungelled soap is, the less apt it should be to be crumbly. It should be more cohesive and firm. Also- other things can cause crumbly soap, such as lye heaviness for example, or the addition of high amounts of certain additives such as sodium lactate or clay, etc.. [Oh, I just saw where you said the class measured in volume instead of weighing. Yeah, bad idea. I wouldn't take any more classes from them.]

Also- at the other end of the spectrum, if you wait too long to cut certain formulas, the soap can crack and crumble from it simply being too hard to cut at that time.

Re: gel- Another way to explain gel is that it is just saponification speeded up. While all raw soap batters have to go through the process of saponification to become actual soap, the gel stage will just get them there that much quicker.

Gelling/not gelling is all a matter of personal preference. I'm one of those who likes to gel. I choose to gel because I like being able to unmold and cut quicker, thereby freeing my up molds to make more soap, and because it cuts 2 weeks off my cure time (4 weeks instead of 6). I also like the transluscent look and how my colors turn out more brilliant instead of pastel. And if I want an opaque/creamy or pastel look to my gelled soap, all I have to do is add a little TD to my batch and voila!- opaque, creamy and pastel looking soap. I can also get really cool opaque/translucent looks in the same soap by adding TD to only part of my soap. Gelled soap just gives me more options.


IrishLass

 

[jujubean]

My milk soaps I don't gel, in fact I just made a goats milk soap unscented which I put in the freezer for 48 hours. It turned out a cream color which was what I was going for. Milk soaps tend to heat up and if you add scents or honey they will heat up even more.
As for other reasons not to gel, I like the opaque look of un-gelled soaps and I find sometimes the scents last longer on the ones that don't gel. Also there is a less chance of a fragrance oil morphing. Definitely take your time in unmolding. I usually take it out of the fridge (I'm using wooden molds lined with freezer paper) and leave it set. I may pull down the sides of the freezer paper and leave it alone for the rest of that day. Next day I'll tip it over to let air to the bottom of the log. I usually don't even try cutting un gelled soaps for about 4 days after making it. Hope this helps.
I do make some gelled soaps but usually ones that I know the fragrance doesn't morph. The gelled soaps definitely harden up faster however. Good-luck, hope this helped!

 

[Yvonne]

Yes, i agree, my milk soap l don't gell, if something with herbs for some reason i like CPOP

 

[Kleine Teufel]

I'd be careful using that soap that you made at the class. I find it crazy that someone would host a class and teach people that volume measurements are ok... Crazy and unsafe. As for cutting/unmolding, I use a high OO soap, so it's fairly soft. After it sets (top isn't soft anymore and I can touch it without making any indents) I pop it in the freezer for 3-4 hours, then unmold. That frees my molds up, but I let the soap set for a day or two before cutting. However, salt bars, and even other pure coconut bars (laundry soap) you should cut almost right away. I made the mistake of making laundry soap, then leaving for the day. I came back the next morning and it crumbled at the bottom of each cut.
I do CPOP on some of my batches, but you've got to watch it with milk soaps... I made five batches the other day, and had two in the oven and of course, I overheated them. Thankfully, I think they're still usable (I haven't even cut them yet, lol), but it's something you have to use caution with. Gelling can also create volcano issues, where the soap will overheat and expand, causing an ugly (IMO) top.