Brendamona
New Member
Hi everyone I am new to cold process made 5 batches I forgot to add my castor oil to a batch does that mean I should not use ? And will it be too lye heavy ? Thank you in advance Brenda
Forgot superfat
- Thread starter Brendamona
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When making cp soap just add in all your oils, because it makes no difference. You lye will use up what it wants. What percentage of superfat were you allowing for? I would assume 5% and you left out 5%? If so you are fine. Lye is not 100% pure and soap calcs are based on sap averages. Just let your soap cure 2-3 months check for zap and all should be fine. Many of us soap with low superfat percentages.
Brendamona
New Member
Yes 5 percent thank you I thought it was suppose to be added right before pour , thank you for your help
Only with hp, not cp. Even with hp it is not guaranteed what oil/oils will remain as the superfat.
Carly B
Well-Known Member
I forgot my 5% castor oil in a batch once. I recalculated and I was just the teeniest bit lye heavy. I just let it sit a little bit. It's fine now, no zap, and very nice in the shower.
Dawni
Well-Known Member
Same here. In my case it was HP and I forgot about 3% superfat. I let it cure for about 4 months instead of my normal 2 months. Turned out to be great soap lol one of my family's favorites.
So castor has a SAP value of NaOH = 0.128
Sounds like you were using not only a 5% superfat value -- and 5% castor.
So what it really comes down to is : the other 95% of the oils..... and their SAP values.
For example Olive oil has a SAP value of 0.135
Solid 76 coconut oil has a sap value of 0.183... if you used oils with really high SAP values you are probably OK --
EXAMPLE:
If your recipe was:
35% coconut oil 350 grams (sap values .183 with 0% super fat)
5% castor 50 grams (sap value .128 with 0% super fat)
60% Sunflower 600 grams (sap value .135 with 0% superfat)
Lye required = 350x.183 + 50x.128 + 600x.135
= 64.05 + 6.4 + 81
= 151.45 grams of lye <== for 0% superfat
At 5% super fat the the lye required is: 143.84 grams with 1000 grams of oil <you need to use the 5% superfat SAP values -- or work with 95% of the oil for the calculation but put in 100% of the oil in the recipe mix >==>
Example of 95% soaponifcation (also called 5% superfat)
= 350 x .95 x .183 + 50 x .95 x .128 + 600 x .95 x.135
= 60.85 + 6.1 + 76.95
= 143.9 grams
What this formula is saying is: I'm going to us 350 grams of coconut oil, but I want only 95% of the coconut oil to become soap, there will not be enough lye for the remaining 5% of the coconut to soaponify (deliberately) so this 5% will become a superfat. Same concept for the other 2 values.
To drive this point home: with 5% superfat of all the oils you put in: say 500 grams of oils -- you want only 500 x .95 ==> 475 grams to be used to make the soap, the other 5% ==> 500 grams x .05 = 25 grams of oil will be floating around in your bar of soap and is considered the superfat. So at 5% superfat the amount of lye you put in is just enough to soaponify 95% of your oils. Likewise at 10% superfat you only put enough lye in to soaponify 90% of your oils.
Now you make this recipe and you forgot the CASTOR...but your at 5% superfat so you used 143 grams of lye
Now your "unintended" recipe is:
35% coconut oil 350 grams (sap values .183 with 0% super fat)
60% Sunflower 600 grams (sap value .135 with 0% superfat)
Lye required = 350x.183 + 600x.135
= 64.05 + 81
= 145.05 grams of lye <== for 0% superfat
You used 143 grams of lye..... which means you are OK .... that is you could have used up to 145.05 grams of lye and expected all the lye to be used up (no crystals - crystals happen when all the lye is not used up... or your don't mix well, and all the lye is not used up)... you have a 2.5 gram buffer. You should be fine. Clearly if you used more than 145.05 grams of lye you might have issues. I say might because even withing sunflower oils, they are not all created equal and the TRUE SAP value for one sunflower oil might be .1357 while another might be .1341 ... that is the SAP values provided are not for a particular SUNFLOWER oil manufacture and the SAP value can still vary between manufacturers. Soapers who want to work at less than say 2% superfat probably need the exact SAP value for the BRAND of oil they are using... not just the type of oil -- they might need a manufacturers SPEC sheet or something.
Best of LUCK !!!
Sounds like you were using not only a 5% superfat value -- and 5% castor.
So what it really comes down to is : the other 95% of the oils..... and their SAP values.
For example Olive oil has a SAP value of 0.135
Solid 76 coconut oil has a sap value of 0.183... if you used oils with really high SAP values you are probably OK --
EXAMPLE:
If your recipe was:
35% coconut oil 350 grams (sap values .183 with 0% super fat)
5% castor 50 grams (sap value .128 with 0% super fat)
60% Sunflower 600 grams (sap value .135 with 0% superfat)
Lye required = 350x.183 + 50x.128 + 600x.135
= 64.05 + 6.4 + 81
= 151.45 grams of lye <== for 0% superfat
At 5% super fat the the lye required is: 143.84 grams with 1000 grams of oil <you need to use the 5% superfat SAP values -- or work with 95% of the oil for the calculation but put in 100% of the oil in the recipe mix >==>
Example of 95% soaponifcation (also called 5% superfat)
= 350 x .95 x .183 + 50 x .95 x .128 + 600 x .95 x.135
= 60.85 + 6.1 + 76.95
= 143.9 grams
What this formula is saying is: I'm going to us 350 grams of coconut oil, but I want only 95% of the coconut oil to become soap, there will not be enough lye for the remaining 5% of the coconut to soaponify (deliberately) so this 5% will become a superfat. Same concept for the other 2 values.
To drive this point home: with 5% superfat of all the oils you put in: say 500 grams of oils -- you want only 500 x .95 ==> 475 grams to be used to make the soap, the other 5% ==> 500 grams x .05 = 25 grams of oil will be floating around in your bar of soap and is considered the superfat. So at 5% superfat the amount of lye you put in is just enough to soaponify 95% of your oils. Likewise at 10% superfat you only put enough lye in to soaponify 90% of your oils.
Now you make this recipe and you forgot the CASTOR...but your at 5% superfat so you used 143 grams of lye
Now your "unintended" recipe is:
35% coconut oil 350 grams (sap values .183 with 0% super fat)
60% Sunflower 600 grams (sap value .135 with 0% superfat)
Lye required = 350x.183 + 600x.135
= 64.05 + 81
= 145.05 grams of lye <== for 0% superfat
You used 143 grams of lye..... which means you are OK .... that is you could have used up to 145.05 grams of lye and expected all the lye to be used up (no crystals - crystals happen when all the lye is not used up... or your don't mix well, and all the lye is not used up)... you have a 2.5 gram buffer. You should be fine. Clearly if you used more than 145.05 grams of lye you might have issues. I say might because even withing sunflower oils, they are not all created equal and the TRUE SAP value for one sunflower oil might be .1357 while another might be .1341 ... that is the SAP values provided are not for a particular SUNFLOWER oil manufacture and the SAP value can still vary between manufacturers. Soapers who want to work at less than say 2% superfat probably need the exact SAP value for the BRAND of oil they are using... not just the type of oil -- they might need a manufacturers SPEC sheet or something.
Best of LUCK !!!
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Estee, please Introduce yourself in the Intro forum seeing this is your first post.
I have been requested to introduce myself....... Hi, I'm Estee. I'm new to soap making, but I'm not new to math..... I have a strong mathematics and statistics background and have worked as a statistician in the past. To be accurate, I have made 5 batches of soap but have spent a lot of time goofing around with the numbers to make sure I understand how everything fits together..... noting how ingredients behave when their percentages are increased or decreased.... I have yet to figure out how the INS calculation actually works..... but know to try and hit 160 on this scale without going over.... so far so good !!! Also, all the math in the world doesn't necessarily give you the best bar, there is a lot of personal preferences going on to choose your best bar...... currently I am experimenting with different oils and butters to determine which produces the most pleasing bar for me...... and I'm always on the look out for suggestions ... especially those that come from years and years of experience or those that come from beginners luck!!!! My 5th batch used Vinegar instead of water in the lye solution -- and this seems to have created a much harder bar (but I made a recipe fairly different from the rest... so I can't be certain).... I suspect it will be a long time before I find my perfect recipe... any help you can provide in getting me to the perfect bar would be much appreciated, lots of love and happy soaping.
Welcome to the forum.
Most Soapers here other than DeeAnna are going to use a soap calc, since it is just easier. We have the knowledge to manually figure out our lye requirements just do not want too. At least I do not want to.
As I mentioned above soap calcs work with averages and unless you test every oil you have yourself for SAP value you cannot possibly know the exact SAP of each batch of oil you are using, and it is not always easy to get the SAP value from manufacturers. I would venture to say none of us are set up to run the titration testing to figure SAP values. For a new soaper who basically asks if their soap will be okay, a simple yes or no answer is fine without the math, which can be quite confusing. A little FYI, you can soap at 0 superfat and a few points below and still be not lye heavy, with decent cure time. Cure time and liquid amounts can also play a role.
I hope you added in the extra NaOH to compensate for the Vinegar to create sodium acetate.
Certainly the soap calc makes life easier -- how you would ever use the soap calc to figure out if your soap will turn out when you have a set lye amount and your percentages don't add up to 100 (because you omitted your 5% castor) is beyond me-- to just say the soap will turn out fine is nice, but I would want to know why the person believes the soap will turn out fine; the numbers put someone like me at ease.... I can understand that you don't care for the numbers..... we are all different... for me, someone who I don't know saying it will all turn out fine is as good as buying a lottery ticket...... I need to know why they think it will turn out fine... I would like them to convince me it will turn out fine...... the person needs to look at what the other oils are.... because if the other oils are similar to Carrot oil which has a SAP of .103 ==> they could have a mess on their hands.
and yes of course I added the extra lye need for my vinegar : my notes say:
weight of the vinegar by .0333 to get the additional amount of lye you need to add to the soap recipe. The soap came out lovely !!!
and yes of course I added the extra lye need for my vinegar : my notes say:
weight of the vinegar by .0333 to get the additional amount of lye you need to add to the soap recipe. The soap came out lovely !!!
