AnnaMarie
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much Pilar! I'm going to try this, and to find some beaten black olives as well for the other recipe......
Deanna, I have a question...
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Thank you so much Pilar! I'm going to try this, and to find some beaten black olives as well for the other recipe......
Perfect, AnneMarie, if you need help, just send me message
AnnaMarie, maybe this wasn't meant to be used on skin, but you've used it on your dry skin and liked it! We talked about the science behind why it may become skin-safe, and CMZ talks about how her soaps are 0 superfat, so just keep on doing what works!
Also, have you used this castile day after day, or just occasionally?
Also, have you used this castile day after day, or just occasionally?
AnnaMarie
Well-Known Member
Soap rat, I used it daily. Once I put soap in the shower then that's what I use. At that time all I had made was that batch, so that's what I used. I may use recycled olive oil for making the laundry version of this, but I make it with new oil so I have to imagine it's more conditioning. Thank you for the encouragement Soap rat!
Cheers!
Anna Marie
Cheers!
Anna Marie
MzMolly65
Well-Known Member
Well I'll be honest, I'm not liking this soap anymore. As mine dries it's turning a nasty shade of yellow and is becoming all "crispy". It feels like really dried out leather :-(
AnnaMarie
Well-Known Member
So sorry it's not working out for you Molly!
My homely olive soap is leveling off on its moisture loss. The pretty safflower-lard soap bars have lost an average of 29% of their starting weight, but the rate of loss is slowing.
The bars of the pretty soap are almost completely covered with a fine white, powdery ash that washes off easily. This ash developed about 6 days after I cut the bars. Before that time, the bars were cool and slightly clammy to the touch, indicating a lot of evaporation. The relative humidity in my home has been running 40-45%, so I expected this fast drying rate.
I cut one bar of each recipe in half and tested the center of these bars for zap. Nothing. Not even a metallic/salty/bitter taste. Just the taste of plain ol' everyday bland soap. Seriously. I had not expected that, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise.
I took half of each test bar and lathered up. The homely bar (olive) lathered fairly nicely with a good blend of lotion-y lather and large fluffy bubbles. The pretty bar (safflower-lard) is still having trouble lathering well for me. Both soaps were very slick when I first wet them -- is this what folks mean about "slimy"? I get varying degrees of this slipperiness with soaps that don't have a lot of additives -- but I must admit these two are slippery little devils.
Since testing these soaps, my hands are somewhat dry and taut -- I'd like to put lotion on them. On the other hand, I don't normally wash my hands for several minutes at a stretch and my skin is always dry from winter weather and what I do in my day job. If these soaps were lye heavy, I would expect my skin to be rough, itchy, and reddened. I'm not getting any of that.
PS: Molly -- my first batch is leathery looking too, but the second is as pretty a soap as I've ever made. thanks for the offer to send me a soap!
The bars of the pretty soap are almost completely covered with a fine white, powdery ash that washes off easily. This ash developed about 6 days after I cut the bars. Before that time, the bars were cool and slightly clammy to the touch, indicating a lot of evaporation. The relative humidity in my home has been running 40-45%, so I expected this fast drying rate.
I cut one bar of each recipe in half and tested the center of these bars for zap. Nothing. Not even a metallic/salty/bitter taste. Just the taste of plain ol' everyday bland soap. Seriously. I had not expected that, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise.
I took half of each test bar and lathered up. The homely bar (olive) lathered fairly nicely with a good blend of lotion-y lather and large fluffy bubbles. The pretty bar (safflower-lard) is still having trouble lathering well for me. Both soaps were very slick when I first wet them -- is this what folks mean about "slimy"? I get varying degrees of this slipperiness with soaps that don't have a lot of additives -- but I must admit these two are slippery little devils.
Since testing these soaps, my hands are somewhat dry and taut -- I'd like to put lotion on them. On the other hand, I don't normally wash my hands for several minutes at a stretch and my skin is always dry from winter weather and what I do in my day job. If these soaps were lye heavy, I would expect my skin to be rough, itchy, and reddened. I'm not getting any of that.
PS: Molly -- my first batch is leathery looking too, but the second is as pretty a soap as I've ever made. thanks for the offer to send me a soap!
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FlybyStardancer
Well-Known Member
DeeAnna, did you see the pictures of my second soap? Any ideas what that amber liquid is?
Another thought ... I realize this recipe breaks the "common wisdom" of handcrafted soaping that a body soap must be superfatted. I just read an interesting article on industrial soap making and came across this interesting fact:
"...Soap with free fatty acid (FFA) content at more than 5% of the total fatty acid (TFA) content are often called superfatted soaps. ...superfatted soaps are less common today than they were in the period from 1970–1990. Most toilet soaps now contain zero or only fractional amounts of FFA...." Source: Soap Making Technology, Luis Spitz, editor, 2009.
Not saying I want to make soap just like "store boughten", but I think this points out that superfat is not an absolute, mandatory requirement for a mild bath soap.
Your experience confirms this castile soap can be lovely for use in the bath, not just the laundry, so I'm all for hanging in there with this recipe to see where this experiment leads us. So far this soap has broken a lot of my preconceived notions about soap making, and I'm curious to learn the next lesson this soap has to offer.
"...Soap with free fatty acid (FFA) content at more than 5% of the total fatty acid (TFA) content are often called superfatted soaps. ...superfatted soaps are less common today than they were in the period from 1970–1990. Most toilet soaps now contain zero or only fractional amounts of FFA...." Source: Soap Making Technology, Luis Spitz, editor, 2009.
Not saying I want to make soap just like "store boughten", but I think this points out that superfat is not an absolute, mandatory requirement for a mild bath soap.
Your experience confirms this castile soap can be lovely for use in the bath, not just the laundry, so I'm all for hanging in there with this recipe to see where this experiment leads us. So far this soap has broken a lot of my preconceived notions about soap making, and I'm curious to learn the next lesson this soap has to offer.
StarDancer: "...Any ideas what that amber liquid is?..."
I did see your picture -- Post 350, right?
I'm guessing it's probably a lye, water, and glycerine solution with maybe some of your colorant thrown in for good measure. Some of the liquid that drained out of my homely soap was a thin milky-clear syrup, but some was very thick and amber colored. The parts of my homely soap that oozed the thick goop are still the softest part of this soap, but these areas are not wet or goopy anymore. They feel more like taffy and are gradually getting firmer with time.
If I were you, I'd just let your soap continue to cure and dry out. It might look awfully homely like mine, but I'm thinking mine might turn out to be reasonably nice soap in the end.
Hope this helps!
I did see your picture -- Post 350, right?
I'm guessing it's probably a lye, water, and glycerine solution with maybe some of your colorant thrown in for good measure. Some of the liquid that drained out of my homely soap was a thin milky-clear syrup, but some was very thick and amber colored. The parts of my homely soap that oozed the thick goop are still the softest part of this soap, but these areas are not wet or goopy anymore. They feel more like taffy and are gradually getting firmer with time.
If I were you, I'd just let your soap continue to cure and dry out. It might look awfully homely like mine, but I'm thinking mine might turn out to be reasonably nice soap in the end.
Hope this helps!
AnnaMarie
Well-Known Member
I still like my soap! I fully plan on using it, enjoying it, and making more . I am always open to others ideas and improvement, but so far this recipe fits the bill for me
Cheers!
Anna Marie
Ps- I like how mine looks too
. I am always open to others ideas and improvement, but so far this recipe fits the bill for me Cheers!
Anna Marie
Ps- I like how mine looks too
FlybyStardancer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, pictured there. There's tiny pockets of the liquid along the side, but the bottom has a HUGE pocket with a very thin veneer of soap covering it (which I broke into when I discovered it). It's caused the bottom to be "sunken in" (or what would have been sunken in if it were the top instead of the bottom). I'm not entirely sure that there's colorant in it, but a mix of lyewater and glycerin solution. And thick and amber is definitely a good description! The loaf is still too soft to cut, so I haven't cut it open to see what's going on inside.
MzMolly65
Well-Known Member
I wonder if my soap is turning leathery due to the embeds I put in .. ?finicky soap Gods cranky that I dared to embellish a Castile soap?
Honestly, I'm scared to put my tongue to it. My fingers tingle if I don't wash quick after handling it. It can sit for a week before I look at it again. I'm wondering how to rebatch it .. with all that lye is a regular rebatch going to work? I like making sugar scrub cubes with my scraps and fails but scared to do that with a super lye heavy soap and end up with skin scalding scrubs :-(
Honestly, I'm scared to put my tongue to it. My fingers tingle if I don't wash quick after handling it. It can sit for a week before I look at it again. I'm wondering how to rebatch it .. with all that lye is a regular rebatch going to work? I like making sugar scrub cubes with my scraps and fails but scared to do that with a super lye heavy soap and end up with skin scalding scrubs :-(
Molly -- I don't think I'd reuse the soap in scrubs. Like you said, I'd be concerned about the excess alkalinity in this soap being troublesome. Rebatching might work fine -- you know what's in it, so you should be able to figure how much additional oil is required to saponify the excess lye. Forgive me if I've missed important details about your soap -- there are so many posts to keep track of, I might have missed something. If it were me? I'd set the soap away and give it more time. I'm seeing both of my soaps becoming far less zappy as time goes on, so the simplest solution may just be patience.
"...Honestly, I'm scared to put my tongue to it. My fingers tingle if I don't wash quick after handling it...."
Don't zap test it, m'dear. Your fingers are telling you plenty! I've noticed that too with this soap.
"... the bottom has a HUGE pocket with a very thin veneer of soap covering it..."
Stardancer -- The stuff in the pocket is still pretty gooey, right? Would it work to cut the soap into bars, even with the goo problem? You might get some ooze, but if your soap is similar to mine, the ooze may stop a few hours after being exposed to the air. Since I'm not right with you to see what it's like, take this suggestion with a grain of salt (err, soap).
I was musing this morning about the soda ash on my second soap and did some calculations about how much ash would form if the only way excess alkali is neutralized is by reacting with CO2. For every ounce (or gram) of excess lye that reacts with CO2 in the air, it is going to form 1.3 to 3.6 ounces (or grams) of ash, depending on the specific type of soda ash being formed (anhydrous vs. decahydrate) and assuming my calculations are more-or-less correct.
AnnaMarie's original recipe is about 2 ounces lye heavy, so it should form a total of 2.6 to 7.2 ounces of ash all over the surfaces of the soap bars. That is a lot. Way, way, way more than what's forming on my soaps, which started out just as lye heavy.
So, I'm not sure just the formation of soda ash is the whole story. If ash formation is the only thing that is neutralizing the excess lye, the soap should be covered in a thick fur coat of soda ash. No one who has made this recipe, including me, is finding this to be the case.
Not having a chem lab to study this, I'm not sure exactly what else is going on. Despite my ignorance of the reasons, it's clear this type of soap becomes considerably less lye heavy as time goes on. AnnaMarie's experience shows the soap will become mild and skin safe, given time, and that's impressive.
This is intriguing. I love it...!
"...Honestly, I'm scared to put my tongue to it. My fingers tingle if I don't wash quick after handling it...."
Don't zap test it, m'dear. Your fingers are telling you plenty! I've noticed that too with this soap.
"... the bottom has a HUGE pocket with a very thin veneer of soap covering it..."
Stardancer -- The stuff in the pocket is still pretty gooey, right? Would it work to cut the soap into bars, even with the goo problem? You might get some ooze, but if your soap is similar to mine, the ooze may stop a few hours after being exposed to the air. Since I'm not right with you to see what it's like, take this suggestion with a grain of salt (err, soap).
I was musing this morning about the soda ash on my second soap and did some calculations about how much ash would form if the only way excess alkali is neutralized is by reacting with CO2. For every ounce (or gram) of excess lye that reacts with CO2 in the air, it is going to form 1.3 to 3.6 ounces (or grams) of ash, depending on the specific type of soda ash being formed (anhydrous vs. decahydrate) and assuming my calculations are more-or-less correct.
AnnaMarie's original recipe is about 2 ounces lye heavy, so it should form a total of 2.6 to 7.2 ounces of ash all over the surfaces of the soap bars. That is a lot. Way, way, way more than what's forming on my soaps, which started out just as lye heavy.
So, I'm not sure just the formation of soda ash is the whole story. If ash formation is the only thing that is neutralizing the excess lye, the soap should be covered in a thick fur coat of soda ash. No one who has made this recipe, including me, is finding this to be the case.
Not having a chem lab to study this, I'm not sure exactly what else is going on. Despite my ignorance of the reasons, it's clear this type of soap becomes considerably less lye heavy as time goes on. AnnaMarie's experience shows the soap will become mild and skin safe, given time, and that's impressive.
This is intriguing.
I love it...!
FlybyStardancer
Well-Known Member
So far it's been as soft as nearly every other soap I've made, so I haven't cut it yet. Aside from the bottom, the rest of it is firm, but will dent if I put enough pressure on it. For the other soaps, this has meant drag marks when cutting.
"...What happened with the lye heavy castile? How does it feel? Is it worth trying? ..."
Uh, I need cliffs notes too! So far I believe most of the new batches from this recipe are still somewhat to very definitely lye heavy. Mine aren't zapping anymore, but I wouldn't take a shower with either one just yet -- they're both under 2 weeks old and clearly need more cure time.
Uh, I need cliffs notes too! So far I believe most of the new batches from this recipe are still somewhat to very definitely lye heavy. Mine aren't zapping anymore, but I wouldn't take a shower with either one just yet -- they're both under 2 weeks old and clearly need more cure time.
kerry100
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MzMolly ... you are SO funny ... make me giggle with your comments
To ALL the other hero's and heroines .... I joined your excellent thread last night and spend the whole of Saturday night reading it! Well done to you all ... you were all amazing, and scientific and persistent and all in the name of soap !!!
I even popped back tonight to see how you were all getting on
sending ya much love
k
x
To ALL the other hero's and heroines .... I joined your excellent thread last night and spend the whole of Saturday night reading it! Well done to you all ... you were all amazing, and scientific and persistent and all in the name of soap !!!
I even popped back tonight to see how you were all getting on
sending ya much love
k
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Batch 3 and 4 I umolded within 24 hours and cut. Because it's so wet, it cuts extremely cleanly and no drag marks at all. The soap itself is soft but will hold its shape fine after cutting unless you drop a bar or something. Smooth as silk on the surface of the cut. I waited on batch #1 until it was hard, but then it was too hard and I had some breakage at the bottom of the cut.
I just got my first appearance of bubbles this am on a trial wash. Soap made on Feb 23. The water in the sink got quite bubbly but I couldn't generate that much lather in my hands. My hands felt a bit tight after washing. No zap and no tingle even if I leave my tongue on the test bar, but it was one that leaked lye water. I can still pick up a touch of tingle if I leave my tongue sitting on the bar for a bit on the 1/2 of that batch that didn't weep.
I just got my first appearance of bubbles this am on a trial wash. Soap made on Feb 23. The water in the sink got quite bubbly but I couldn't generate that much lather in my hands. My hands felt a bit tight after washing. No zap and no tingle even if I leave my tongue on the test bar, but it was one that leaked lye water. I can still pick up a touch of tingle if I leave my tongue sitting on the bar for a bit on the 1/2 of that batch that didn't weep.
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