Using Silk Tussah in soap

Hey everyone!

I've purchased silk tussah (Saffire Blue) for my cold process soaps after reading it was helping to create a silky latter but I'm a little confused about its use... It has to be dissolved to the lye water, but it dosent seem to dissolve really well. I'm always left with a little ball of silk strings happily floating in my lye water :eh:.

Is it normal? Am I suppose to wait a longer, or to put it at the same time as the lye, or to just leave it there when I mix with the oils? I'm making little batches of soap (1 pound), how much I'm a suppose to put in it? And is the effect really that incredible? I've only used it two times and those are still curing so...

Can't wait to here about your experiences with it! :smile:

My latest batch of tussah silk has done the same. I suspected a weakened lye due to long term storage but that does not seem to be the case. I have removed the little slimy remains and have left them. Hasn't bothered anything but then I'm not selling soap either.
As to how much to use, that is usually a pencil eraser size ball or more for a larger batch. It's kind of a ballpark thing so if you're the absolute scientific minded exacting type that measurement could probably drive you nuts. But it works. I've used more and less.
Does it make a difference? To me, ehh. Someone with more sensitive skin will chime in I'm sure.

You add the silk to the water before adding the lye, dissolve best you can then strain the lye so there aren't any silk bits floating around. You only need a thumbnail sized piece for a 1lb batch.

I can feel a difference with the silk, not much but its there.

I use a small "pinch" of silk for my CP soap. For a 5lb batch I typically use a pinch the size of a very, very small cottonball. I cut up the silk into small pieces over my empty lye water bowl. Cutting up the silk will help a lot with helping it to dissolve when you add the lye. After I cut up the silk I then add my water and stir the silk and water to saturate the silk. Water alone won't dissolve it. Next I add my lye and mix the lye until it has completely dissolved. I periodically check the lye water and stir to see how the silk is dissolving. When my lye water has reached 100 degrees or lower the silk is usually completely dissolved by then. It takes about 20-30 minutes.

If you still have bits of silk you can strain it through a stainless steel mesh strainer as you pour it into your soap batter. I have never had any problems with my Tussah silk doing it this way. I like the way it makes my soap feel when I use it.

While I am waiting on my lye water to cool I start putting together my soap oils and melting my hard oils. By the time I have finished my lye water and silk is usually ready.

PS: I also gently pull my silk ball out and spread it thin before cutting it. Think of rolling out pizza dough. Make the silk ball thin and then cut it up.

i add mine to the hot lye water. it dissolves in no time. sometimes there are floating bits, no biggie, just strain. separate the fiber to thin pieces to help it dissolve faster.

I too use silk in my soaps and I love the feel of the soap with it in. I do notice a difference. Like others have said you cut it up into smaller pieces and I do the same as CandyBee with stretching the fibres out before cutting. Something else I do is come back to the lye water a couple of times and stir it until the fibres are dissolved. You can use any animal fleece in your lye and it's fun experimenting. So far I've used sheep wool and poodle hair.

Thank you!!

Wow! Can't believe that 1h after posting my question there's already so many replies! You are some efficient soapmakers, I guess I'll have no choice but to spend all my days in here!

Thanks a lot, I'll try separating the fiber, dissolving it before I put the lye and then takeing the fibers out of the water if there are still some in it. Can't wait to try to see if it make a difference!

I try to keep my products vegan as much as possible (which isnt all that hard with cold process soap) but I really wanted to try the silk. As any of you heard about any kind of «non-cruelty» silk... if there is any kind of cruelty involve in the making of the silk!

I let the silk fibers soak in the water for a bit and then just add my lye. The heat pretty much dissolves all of it with a couple stirs here and there. I love silk in my soaps. Use it in all of them.

Lindy said:

I... You can use any animal fleece in your lye and it's fun experimenting. So far I've used sheep wool and poodle hair.

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*ponders the bits of cat fluff on the back of the sofa*

noirsavon said:

I try to keep my products vegan as much as possible (which isnt all that hard with cold process soap) but I really wanted to try the silk. As any of you heard about any kind of «non-cruelty» silk... if there is any kind of cruelty involve in the making of the silk!

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Normally the silk cocoons are boiled while the caterpillar is still inside alive. I'm assuming cruelty free silk is gathered from cocoons that have hatched on their own.

There are silk pods that are wild harvested...they wait until the worm emerges (normally the worm is killed inside the cocoon to keep the fibers intact. Just do a search for it, I'm sure you'll be able to find some. It's easy to unravel the silk fibers from the pods...it'd probably be cheaper the get the pods instead of the processed silk.

my favorite silk site for information, I've been buying silk mawatas to knit with .. now I'll have to put some in my soap!

http://www.wormspit.com/peacesilk.htm

Something else to keep in mind is that in many of the cultures that produce the silk, the worm is considered a delicacy and is eaten. There is something called peace silk but I have yet to find a reliable supplier for it.

ETA -
Hah! Ms Molly covered that in her link.... great link by the way.

Tussah (or Tasar) silk is a wild silk and completely cruelty free. It's made by a species called Antheraea paphia and the moths live in forests and feed on trees and the silk is harvested after the moths have emerged and flown away to live out their moth lives.

So-called peace silk, although the moths are allowed to hatch before the silk is harvested, is not cruelty free in my opinion. That silk is often made by a species called bombyx mori which is not a species found in nature and cannot survive without human help, but has been "domesticated" and bred for centuries merely to produce silk. In that time, they have become so utterly inbred, that the hatched moths are unable to see, to fly or even to eat. All they can do is breed and after that, they starve to death.

Lindy said:

You can use any animal fleece in your lye and it's fun experimenting. So far I've used sheep wool and poodle hair.

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Wow! Poodle soap! The marketing potential is mind-boggling!

Tienne said:

Tussah (or Tasar) silk is a wild silk and completely cruelty free.

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This is a potentially volatile topic so I'll tread lightly and if the moderators want I'll remove this post. Sorry Tienne but I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. Cruelty free is a very, very tricky terminology and it's based on opinion and perspective.

The term "wild" is an artful presentation of the facts and it's comparable to the term "free range", similar to free range chickens. They are not kept in cages like their counterparts but they are still farmed. In other words protected, fed, gatherer up and butchered.

It's far too costly and time consuming to gather wild silk cocoons and if the larvae has emerged the silk is damaged, meaning you're working harder for a less valuable product.

While some Tussar silk might actually be gathered from the wild, most of the worms are actually "free range" or farmed. Branches with eggs are collected from trees in the wild (hence the term wild Tussar) and brought to the farming area where they are placed on trees wrapped with wire (predator prevention). The Tussar worms might roam free in trees compared to domesticated silk worms kept in containers, but they are still farmed.

Farming Tussar worms often means small children or the elderly are working from sun up to sun down to guard from predators, or move them to fresh trees and the workers are not paid, they're working for food. Whether that is cruel or not depends on perception and opinion. While they might look on this as better than going hungry, in the Western world we call it slave labour.

The farmed cocoons are still harvested with the larvae inside. The silk is simply too valuable for them to let the larvae chew a hole in it and damage the thread. Some cocoons are harvested after the larvae emerge but the majority are not.

If the cocoons are actually being harvested in the wild .. are the larvae emerged or still inside? Are children being used to harvest them? Are other animals harmed during the harvest? Are we upsetting the balance of nature by harvesting them?

It's all similar to palm oil. While some palm oil is considered environmentally friendly because a forest was not chopped there are still many factors to consider. Maybe it was farmed in an eco friendly manner but was it then refined using bleach or harsh chemicals that were then dumped into local water sources? Was it farmed using child labour? While it may have been farmed on a farm that has been established for a decade, was the family evicted so palm trees could be planted or are other families starving because they are not allowed to harvest wild palm?

Environmentally friendly or cruelty free are words we like to hear so we have a tendency to accept the artful presentation of the facts but it's not always the entire or true picture.

MzMolly65 said:

This is a potentially volatile topic so I'll tread lightly and if the moderators want I'll remove this post. Sorry Tienne but I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. Cruelty free is a very, very tricky terminology and it's based on opinion and perspective.

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Aww, MzMolly, there's no need to have the post removed. I'm not in the least bit offended or "stuck in my ways" and I am never too old to learn something new either, so I greatly appreciate your post.

I only have very superficial knowledge of the silk industry. I also only have superficial knowledge of the palm oil industry, the cocoa bean industry and the mica industry. All those industries have some kind of "damned if you do and damned if you don't" about them. I remember reading how children are forced to work long hours mining micas so them and their families can make a few measly bucks just enough so they can eat or how the people who grow cocoa beans can't even afford to send their kids to school and also keep them home because they are needed to help on the plantations. When I started soaping, it never crossed my mind that there were so many things that I had to make decisions about. No matter which choice I made, I felt I was "hurting" something or someone. Do I want to help save the rainforests by not using palm? Yes! Do I want to take away the only job opportunity some poor familie has to feed their children, by growing palm? No! Yes, no, yes, no... hmm. The same goes for cocoa butter and silk and micas etc. We all want to do the best we can to make ethical and conscious choices about the things we buy and I truly believe people do the best they can with the information they have. When we know better, we do better. The mere fact that we are actually having discussions about and are concerned about the life and fate of a small insect or worry about how a poor family in a faraway land is coping is outstanding in itself and it warms my heart to know that people really do care and they really do try the best they can to make good decisions.

Thanks again for your post. I did learn something new from it.

Lindy said:

I too use silk in my soaps and I love the feel of the soap with it in. I do notice a difference. Like others have said you cut it up into smaller pieces and I do the same as CandyBee with stretching the fibres out before cutting. Something else I do is come back to the lye water a couple of times and stir it until the fibres are dissolved. You can use any animal fleece in your lye and it's fun experimenting. So far I've used sheep wool and poodle hair.

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Hi Lindy,

I'm dying to know. . . How did the poodle hair soap turn out?

---Ben

Lindy said:

So far I've used sheep wool and poodle hair.

grayceworks said:

*ponders the bits of cat fluff on the back of the sofa*

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I think I just thought up a new use for all that hair in the drain...

Benjamin said:

Hi Lindy,

I'm dying to know. . . How did the poodle hair soap turn out?

---Ben

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Hi Ben :wave:

It turned out quite nice. I think the proteins in the wool/hair brings a wonderful feel to the soap whether it's silk, poodle or wool. It does seem each is a little different but all of them are wonderful.