Water Discounts

[Paddyfrances]

Hello,

I've been reading everything I can find on the subject of water discounting but before I try any experiments could I please ask your advice.

One of the many recipes I've experimented with recently (last batch was mid November) which seems to be working nicely so far is:
Olive Pomace - 450g
Coconut oil - 200g
Shea Butter - 180g
Sunflower Oil - 120g
Castor Oil - 50g
Sodium Lactate - 20g
Lye - 135.40g
Water - 380g
I use soap calc for the lye and water amounts.

The MMS calc gives a range for the amount of water which started me thinking about dropping the amount of water to a lye concentration of 31% instead of the soap calc default of 26.272%.

Your thoughts and wisdom will be invaluable to me.
Thank you.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Why is it that you are looking to use a water discount? Have you thought about the side effects such as faster trace and things? Not wanting to seem to be putting you off of it, more just looking to make sure all has been looked at. Depending on what you like to do with your soaps in general, it is not always the best idea.

As for the discount itself, especially in that recipe, I think it would be useful for unmoulding and cutting sooner as the recipe itself is quite a "liquid" one in that the vast majority of the oils are liquid ones.

Regardless of water discount, soaps still need the cure time that you would give them anyway. You might shave a few days off, but the cure is about more than water reduction so the benefits of cure still stand.

 

[osso]

31% is a good lye concentration to go with to try a discount. Just know that it will probably trace faster and be prepared for that. I normally soap with 33% and it has never sent me running for the mold unless the fragrance was a mover.

 

[Paddyfrances]

Hello,

Thank you for the two responses.
I started thinking about water discounts when I was looking at the MMS site and the range they give for water amounts.
So then I began gathering as much information as I could and began to think that a discount might help with the unmoulding.
I've read that it can affect trace times so have been wary so far of trying it.
I'm going to try a batch using a 31% discount to see what happens.
I might have a go at 33% too just to be daring!

Many thanks.

 

[shunt2011]

I never go lower han 33% and that is only when I'm not trying to do a lot with my soap (colors/swirls etc.) . I will usually keep it at full liquid as I like to have time to play and don't want to have to hustle to get it in the mold. It's best to try different levels to see which works best for what you want to do also what EO/FO's you are using. Some do better with higher water/liquid lye mixture.

 

[lsg]

I always use the default in SoapCalc and Soapmaker.

 

[seven]

i usually go with 2:1, that is the water amount is twice the amount of lye. i'll go higher if the fragrance is a mover. the lowest i've been was 1.5:1. the soap came out alright.

that said, there are factors surrounding water discounting. for me, the main ones are: behaviour of scent, additives.

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome Paddyfrances!

Water discounting is great, but not for every formula, as it looks like you are coming to understand. Here's an excellent PDF that talks all about water discounting, and also about the very important difference between calculating water based on oil amount vs. calculating water based on lye amount:

http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf

I, myself like to use a 33% lye concentration for most of my batches, which is a ratio of using 2 parts water to 1 part lye (water amount based on lye amount as opposed to oil amount). I've found it to be a really good, middle-of-the-road water discount that helps me to unmold faster without causing me any trouble....at least about 98% of the time (i.e., when I'm not using a naughty, accelerating FO).

IrishLass

 

[Paddyfrances]

Hello again,
Thank you everyone for your responses, as usual you are all amazing and have helped me understand this subject much better.
I've made four batches after I posted my plea for help.
For the first three I used a 32% discount and the first and second batches turned out great.
They were out of the moulds and cut within 24 hours which is great.
However the third batch ended up really thick and I had to gloop it into the mould. It's still in there so I've no idea what it'll turn out like.
So I've done another one with everything the same except that this time I've used the full water amount.
I'm looking forward to taking them out of their moulds to see what they are like.
Thank you again for all you help and support.
Paddy