Soap Troubleshooting - Ashy look that doesn't wash off

Soapmaking Forum

Help Support Soapmaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
I've been making soap for about 6 years now and I've never come across this problem before. It appears that I have a soda ash problem, but it doesn't wash off. It looks like it's deep into the soap. I even tried scraping with the back of my disk washing tool. In the red layer on the end it's deep. I didn't stick blend these layers, I used a whisk so that they would pour evenly. Maybe I didn't mix long enough? I'll be upset because this is for a special order. Woof! I noticed a little bit of this white on the red layer on the last batch I made and didn't think anything of it... I'm hoping it's not some sort of unreacted lye? I'm going to go test on the inner side of my elbow... :(

PSX_20210701_120725.jpg

PSX_20210701_120706.jpg

PSX_20210701_120743.jpg


The previous batch that didn't have the problem:
PSX_20210701_120848.jpg

PSX_20210701_120858.jpg
 
That's a bummer. Such a beautiful and laborious soap, but then these specks all over!

I can't imagine these are soda ash either. Some questions towards troubleshooting: It appears to me as if this could be stearic spots, that somehow became worse the later you poured the colours. Do you happen to use a lot of hard oils (palm, lard, shea etc.) at a not too high temperature, so that the red batter had chance to cool down just too much for the reaction heat to re-melt the secretly solidifying fats? Did you force gel/CPOP?
I guess you have prepared a single batch of batter and split it into six portions to add the respective colourants. Or did you split lye and oils into six separately?
Did you pre-mix the red dye/pigment/mica with some oil/liquid, or did you stir it directly into the batter?
I've seen similar appearance also when I added too much sodium lactate. I can't explain why only one of the layers is affected, but who knows?

If you're concerned about safety, i. e. to ensure it's merely ugly but not dangerous, make a zap test.


Loosely related, how did you get these soaps so shiny? I've never seen that mirror-smooth cut surfaces.
 
I'm trying to see... are all soaps fully shrink wrapped? If so, was the - well let's just call it soda ash for the moment - present before shrinkwrapping?
It's only on the red (top) layer, correct?
How do you make your layers? Do you mix in one batch, or do you mix separate batch for each color? If separate batch, do you make one batch of lye solution or several small batches?

Reason for my questions... I have a brewery soap that tends to do this that is also poured in layers. I get this odd soda ash only on the top layer occasionally as well. It's very stubborn. Have you tried steaming? I usually have to steam several times before it goes away. The only thing I've been able to chalk it down to is because I mix each layer separately from one batch of lye solution - and I don't check the last layer, I use whatever oil is left in the MB and whatever lye solution is left in pitcher. I wonder if I have a just slightly off mixture that has a bit more lye present in that layer, which makes it more vulnerable to soda ash. Fortunately the soap never zaps, so it's not off enough to be unsafe soap. My other thought is the color may be more prone to soda ash, I have a few that do that. [I know I know, color shouldn't influence soda ash, but my experience tells me otherwise.]
 
I have had this happen too. I have never been able to remove it except by planing if it doesn't go too deep. I suspect pouring too thin/bare emulsion, or not truly emuslified batter as being the problem, but that is not necessarily the case.
 
That's a bummer. Such a beautiful and laborious soap, but then these specks all over!

I can't imagine these are soda ash either. Some questions towards troubleshooting: It appears to me as if this could be stearic spots, that somehow became worse the later you poured the colours. Do you happen to use a lot of hard oils (palm, lard, shea etc.) at a not too high temperature, so that the red batter had chance to cool down just too much for the reaction heat to re-melt the secretly solidifying fats? Did you force gel/CPOP?
I guess you have prepared a single batch of batter and split it into six portions to add the respective colourants. Or did you split lye and oils into six separately?
Did you pre-mix the red dye/pigment/mica with some oil/liquid, or did you stir it directly into the batter?
I've seen similar appearance also when I added too much sodium lactate. I can't explain why only one of the layers is affected, but who knows?

If you're concerned about safety, i. e. to ensure it's merely ugly but not dangerous, make a zap test.


Loosely related, how did you get these soaps so shiny? I've never seen that mirror-smooth cut surfaces.

I did one layer at a time - and my husband was rushing my process, so yes, we prepped each layers oils all at once and almost 30% shea and the rest soft oils.
So we would heat the oils up to shea's melt point (which I think is highest) to mix and then cool to a room temp so they would pour nicely and we would have lots of time to work with the batter.
I did mix the mica colorants in about a half tbsp of a lightweight oil this time in a separate small containers. Last time I did it in the 32 oz graduated mixing pitchers that I use to make the soap batter.
I would mix the oil and lye and then add colorant (I may have added the colorant sludge to the oil - it was 28 days ago! haha), I think I would stick blend for a tiny amount, then whisk in the fragrance until emulsification, then pour.
Then I would put the mold under a thick towel on my heat pad set to 100F to force gel - no CPOP (plus my molds are too big for my over - but that might make the process faster?).
We were doing 30 min layers, but we got super weird, what I call ocean-y waves in the first batch (came out cool, but not what I wanted) - weird like the blue layers in both soaps didn't solidify as fast as the other colors and I poured over a spatula and I'm usu pretty good at this process.

I did use sodium lactate - 1 tsp per layer, which ends up being about 6tsp/5lbs oils.

I am noticing that the outer edges of the soap are displaying this mostly. As you get towards the center cuts it's just on the top and sides.

So for the second batch we waited 1 hour between. Such a painful soap day! haha.

The soap looks super shiny because I was doing an 'ash wash-off test' with an end-cut. I did wipe the top bit of the bar wet - the red part on the inner elbow - and let it sit for 3 minutes with no reaction.

I've been searching and searching all over the house for my pH test strips and dang-it, I can't find them!!! grrr!!! I really don't want to stick my tongue on a bar of soap. haha

So I soaped at room temp 80F and sometimes the lye would be way lower due to the icebath or being in the fridge. lol I think this may be a big learning moment for us. This isn't our standard soap recipe, but I may move to it in future if I can learn to work with it. My typical recipe only has 10% hard oil and SL. I can prob ditch SL in this recipe.

I'm trying to see... are all soaps fully shrink wrapped? If so, was the - well let's just call it soda ash for the moment - present before shrinkwrapping?
It's only on the red (top) layer, correct?
How do you make your layers? Do you mix in one batch, or do you mix separate batch for each color? If separate batch, do you make one batch of lye solution or several small batches?

Reason for my questions... I have a brewery soap that tends to do this that is also poured in layers. I get this odd soda ash only on the top layer occasionally as well. It's very stubborn. Have you tried steaming? I usually have to steam several times before it goes away. The only thing I've been able to chalk it down to is because I mix each layer separately from one batch of lye solution - and I don't check the last layer, I use whatever oil is left in the MB and whatever lye solution is left in pitcher. I wonder if I have a just slightly off mixture that has a bit more lye present in that layer, which makes it more vulnerable to soda ash. Fortunately the soap never zaps, so it's not off enough to be unsafe soap. My other thought is the color may be more prone to soda ash, I have a few that do that. [I know I know, color shouldn't influence soda ash, but my experience tells me otherwise.]

The single bar on the rack has been washed. I was under the impression that the ash would wash off right away? I also scraped at it, can you see? :p it's deep. Mostly on the outer edges, like soda ash, which I find strange. See my reply to the first, it's really in-depth. I made everything separate so that the measurements would be as accurate as possible. the last photos are from an earlier batch where we didn't take so much time between layers and why their smooshed, but that bar is wrapped. And we don't wrap until cured, which is usually 4 but closer to 6 weeks cuz we're lazy. :p Yes the ash-like color is present before wrapping.

I have had this happen too. I have never been able to remove it except by planing if it doesn't go too deep. I suspect pouring too thin/bare emulsion, or not truly emuslified batter as being the problem, but that is not necessarily the case.


This sounds very close to my problem. It goes deep. I did use a really cooled lye mix too that I didn't think would contribute too much. Maybe I soaped too low of a temp for an almost 30% Shea...?
 
I also had what appears to be the same issue in many of my earlier bars. The biggest changes I've made that seem to have got rid of it were adjusting my recipe to avoid false trace problems that I was plagued with at the beginning, and moving to a 38% lye concentration. I haven't noticed any soaps affected by this in quite a while now.
 
I also had what appears to be the same issue in many of my earlier bars. The biggest changes I've made that seem to have got rid of it were adjusting my recipe to avoid false trace problems that I was plagued with at the beginning, and moving to a 38% lye concentration. I haven't noticed any soaps affected by this in quite a while now.

I need to have time to work the batter and I need flat lines so I need it to pour thin. I have moved to 35% lye conc in my other recipe, but to control glycerin rivers (which I don't mind :p) This recipe is 32% lye conc.

So I used a veggie peeler to plane the corners in preparation for wrapping and the red is harder, almost crusty. I think maybe there was an SL foul. I don't know why I'm using SL in a high shea recipe. I think I may need ot watch my helper in his lye measure as well. The purple layer is tacky. 🤔

Thanks for the replies! They've been very helpful!
 
I need to have time to work the batter and I need flat lines so I need it to pour thin. I have moved to 35% lye conc in my other recipe, but to control glycerin rivers (which I don't mind :p) This recipe is 32% lye conc.
The reason I moved to a higher concentration was to have more work time. In a fragrance test I did with my recipe a while back, the unscented batter barely progressed past emulsion after 30 mins, and after an hour of CPOP beyond that, it was still liquid. In other words, it's not as simple as higher concentration -> faster trace.
 
Thank you for your detailed reply! I must try that wash-off thingie for a shiny finish some day. And yes, I also think that lactate isn't overly necessary for log moulds with forced gel & that high in shea. Tuning lye concentration is a parameter that is easy to modify but difficult yet grateful to master.

But there's another detail: the red (uppermost) layer has had its oils sitting for themselves longest – time to start crystallising again (and shea does crystallise well above room temperature, otherwise you wouldn't have to melt it up). Plus the largest distance from the heating mat, plus the shortest time between mixing the batter and pouring it, and maybe some unfortunate under-SBing, well might explain that these are stearic spots, why they are more prevalent at the top, and why the edges are most affected.

And to the zap test: First, you don't lick the soap directly. Secondly, if you fear it, you should fear using the soap as well, let alone give to others.
 
Is the the lovin soaps rainbow soap tutorial soap? Our red layer turned out the same on the last batch so the one that is still in the mold currently- my daughter and I soaped hot and I heated and stirred the oils thoroughly before pouring the required amount into a smaller pitcher and adding the lye for each layer.. Hopefully when we cut in another day it'll have fixed the issue. Keeping the oils warm helped our stress level too over keeping the layers straight
 
Is the the lovin soaps rainbow soap tutorial soap? Our red layer turned out the same on the last batch so the one that is still in the mold currently- my daughter and I soaped hot and I heated and stirred the oils thoroughly before pouring the required amount into a smaller pitcher and adding the lye for each layer.. Hopefully when we cut in another day it'll have fixed the issue. Keeping the oils warm helped our stress level too over keeping the layers straight
I didn't follow a tutorial. I was just soaping for a while then decided it was time since I'm part of the gay community. They'd show up with a large pair of scalloping shears and say they need to see my gay card if I wasn't able to make rainbow soap... LOL
I was doing 'ombre' soaps, which were three or four layers. Six is just an extension of that, but more finicky, apparently. And I've not made it for a couple of years due to moves and travel. I'm used to just taking my time, and things just have worked out in the past. :p I think this new shea is different too. And I was *really* focused on keeping my temps low!
I'm wondering if a sous vide pump/machine can do like 85-95F... That might help out here... It would be some expensive kit, but would keep oils and lye at an exact temp until you're ready to move to the next layer.
If you link that tutorial, I can see if I can help.
I use an infrared gun type thermometer to measure my temps and I usually write it down, but sometimes I don't, but I remember we got real low this time cuz we put lye in the fridge (no kids here).
 
Last edited:
I guess one thing I left out is that I use soapmaker 3 from Software for soap & body-care products | SoapMaker 3 . I don't know if you've read this yet, but always put any recipe you find online through an online calculator to verify.

I have my 5lb recipe in the program, then I told the program to convert my recipe into 1/6ths and I actually treated it as 6 separate soaps. Does that make sense? I have enough soaping containers to measure out 6 oils and six lye waters, but we did the first layer and while that was setting up, we prepped our other layers to save time. For me it's just too fiddley to masterbatch a recipe and then try to measure out a layer's worth of oil and lye. Why not just treat it as 6 separate recipes, you're going to have the time while each layer sets up, right?

I also decided not to be fiddley with getting all of the soap batter out of the mixing container. I kept another single bar mold handy to use for that. This way I avoid accidents with dropped utensils and ploppy splashes...
I also use single loaf mold, again, I think from nurture soap supply, that have slide-in acrylic lids and wooden encasings. I think it's 7lbs, but fits 5lbs of oils in the recipe.

I also don't use paper towels. I get kinda upset with people who (esp in tutorials) that use paper and/or disposable items - I feel this encourages others to do the same. I use white towels. It's soap and mica.. It washes out - if it doesn't, so what? And I think I've been using the same couple of plastic disp spoons for a few years now. aha And chopsticks, reusable chopsticks for swirling the tops.

That recipe is overly complicated. I'm finding that tutorial problematic at first blush because I feel she just tried to make what she had good for a blog post - not for a practical, 'I'm gonna make this to sell regularly' type of soap. Ok maybe I'm being judgy. ha I just use nurture soap vibrance micas and a tiny but of their neons. I'm colorblind, so I can't mix colors, I just use sets.

Here's what you do, you go get a book called Smart Soapmaking by Anne L Watson. It's brilliant and short and only 107 pages. On page 35 is a recipe called Shea Butter Supreme. It's a 3 oil soap and it's fantastic... 5 oil recipes are a bit much, esp if you're new - my std recipe is only 4 oils. If I'm gonna use 5 oils it's bc I've added Vit E oil. I guess I'm making some assumptions that you're a new soaper. And I'm in the mood to be chatty. Learning from tutorials is great and all, but books have editors and copy editors and the recipes have been tested and tested... And they have way more background info. I read a few books and most have been very interesting. Watson, Cavitch and Faiola's(Brambleberry chick) earlier work. The soapmaker's companion is like a soapmaker's bible. the techniques may be slightly dated, but it has everything (281pgs).

I'm feeling so chatty, I should make a tutorial and put it up on my ecommerce site to drag in some traffic!!! :D
 
Back
Top