Shower Lotion Bar Tests and recipes

[GoBlue]

I decided to improve on the recipe by making two different batches. I lowered the amount of exfoliant and tried Cupuacu butter instead of shea butter and trying mango butter instead of shea butter:

Recipe #3:
39% - Cocoa Butter – 454 g
39% - Cupuacu Butter – 454 g
20% - Almond Flour – 227 g (8 oz)
2% - WFMed "Germ Ninja" Essential Oil – 28 g - Clove Bud, Lemon, Cinnamon, Eucalyptus, Rosemary, Frankincense and Lavender (NOTE: DO NOT USE THIS ESSENTIAL OIL BLEND – IT IRRITATES THE SKIN)
~1% WFMED Coffee Essential Oil – 10 g

Recipe #4:
39% - Cocoa Butter – 454 g
39% - Mango Butter – 454 g
20% - Almond Flour – 227 g (8 oz)
2% - WFMed Cest la Vie Essential Oil – 28 g - Lavender, Geranium, Clary Sage and Ylang Ylang (I DID NOT LIKE THE SMELL OF THIS ESSENTIAL OIL BLEND – USE "CITRUS SPLASH" INSTEAD)

I used the same preparation procedure as above. I like these two recipes above (with cupuacu butter instead of shea butter (recipe #3) and mango butter instead of shea butter (recipe #4) the best because I think these bars are harder than the traditional buffy bar recipe (#1). They are both less greasy as well because I swapped out the shea butter. I did not feel a noticeable difference between the cupuacu butter recipe (#3) and the mango butter recipe (#4).

Though these bars feel wonderful and keep my legs, arms, neck, and face moisturized and soft-feeling, there are only two problems. Because I wash my hands frequently, these bars don’t seem to help with keeping my hands moisturized and soft long-term. For that, it seems I need to use hand lotion. Also, these bars make the shower greasy and there is a lot of product run-off (or waste) that goes down the drain, which cannot be good for plumbing.

My recommendation:
1. Use the cupuacu butter or mango butter recipes above (recipes #3 and #4) with a blend of citrus essential oils (such as Blood Orange, Sweet Orange, Bergamot and Tangerine).
2. Consider buying almond flour, bean flour, and/or rice flour instead of grinding your own. It is far less of a pain!
3. Beware because each ~4 oz bar will last you maybe 5 showers since there is so much product loss down the drain. Make sure to keep up on your shower cleaning because it can make the shower floor slippery.
4. Use a well-draining soap dish to keep these bars as dry as possible between uses.

Thank you for reading!

 

[dibbles]

Thank you @GoBlue for sharing your results!

 

[not_ally]

Yes, thanks @GoBlue, it was very generous to take the time to describe your process so carefully! That really is one of the great things about this board, the collective information that people contribute is enormously helpful for learning. Also, I like your bathroom tile, it goes perfectly with your bars!

 

[Tammyfarms]

Thank you @GoBlue. Great write up on your experiences.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks @GoBlue for sharing your thorough testing results. Very helpful.

 

[Georgeandstella]

Thank you for this, I will be making this with the almond flour. I had also found my ground rice and beans too scratchy. I really appreciate reading about your variations.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

For the record, here’s a post-use photo comparison of an actual Lush Buffy Bar and the mini bar I made using 33% by weight each of cocoa and shea butters, and 17% each of rice and almond flours. I used Bob’s Red Mill rice flour which is a bit coarser than a Japanese rice flour I have. The original Lush bar turned out to be too exfoliating for my skin, but the bar made with rice and almond flour has a nice gentle buff/polish feel that I really like. Referring back to @not_ally original post, I also like that the Buffy style bar leaves a distinctive occlusive layer on the skin.



After my failed attempt to turn an emulsified lotion bar into an exfoliating shower bar (see post #116) and based on comments about conditioner bars being lotion like, I also went ahead and made a few different emulsified bars that were more along the lines of conditioner bars (higher percentage of btms-50), using mango or cocoa butter but sans exfoliants. They felt nice and lotion-y in the shower, but the feeling didn’t linger when I toweled off. On the upside, they will work as my first ever hair conditioner bars.

ETA: @not_ally @Tammyfarms Wanted to add that the bar with the finer exfoliants left less residue on my shower floor compared with the Lush bar. I can think of a few possible explanations - e.g. the finer exfoliants allowed me to rub the butters into my skin which led to less butter rinsing off - or - the finer exfoliants changed the way the bar residue interacts with the tile on my shower floor (act a bit like an emulsifier) -or- less butter is coming off the bar made with finer exfoliants during use. I actually think a combination of these factors is in play

Next steps: I made the test bar for single use (0.5 oz, 14 g) without a preservative, but then it lasted long enough for me to do a couple of sink trials plus two shower trials, with leftovers. It's not feasible to make the bars any smaller because of how quickly a small bar warms up, and also just from the perspective of holding and using a bar. As I got down to the last third/quarter of the test bar, it turned into a soft, malleable blob, like a very thick, grainy body butter. I think it makes sense to shift the melting point of the butter base up for small/single use type bars (GoBlue tried this for larger bars, post 121). I have kokum butter on the way for a next round of testing and will also try dropping some or all of the shea. I'm also planning to make a bar with a thickener in the mix, probably Cetyl Alcohol, but I also have Cetearyl, stearic, butter pearls or wax.

Preservatives: Now that I've tested, I'm not comfortable with a preservative-free strategy, even for a small bar. Some of my friends pride themselves on being able to use my soap down to the very last sliver and I worry that they won't toss the last bit of butter from a single use bar. The ideal preservative would have some water solubility to ensure that it's active when the exfoliants are in contact with the water, but it has to be oil soluble for the anhydrous formulation. It looks like the choices might come down to Optiphen, which is suitable for anhydrous and water soluble products (but not Optiphen Plus is which not suitable for anhydrous products according to SCM) or a paraben-based preservative or possibly something that is not in the preservative tables I have (SCM and Making Skincare). According to the Making Skincare table, paraben-based preservatives must be added to the water phase or they will remain in the oil phase and have reduced activity against bacteria and fungi. That's obviously an issue when there is no water phase.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I edited my last post based on thinking more about my testing results with the last mini-bar. I forgot to add that I'm also thinking about the possibility of using other types of exfoliants, such as ??? ground loofah, ground almond or walnut shell, etc??? They would all be more resistant to microbial degradation compared with almond and rice flour. Fine pumice would work, but I think the label appeal would be pretty low in this kind of bar. Oat or wheat bran? Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[not_ally]

@Mobjack Bay, I was working when I read your last post (it was a good one!) so just skimmed it, I meant to come back to it and forgot. Re some of your points:

Exfoliants: I've thought of extra-fine pumice as well, I even ordered some but never made it to the testing stage. I'll do that this week. After the first couple of rounds of making these I have been grinding the exfoliants very fine, they still work and I like it better. I can put a layer onto my skin, rub it in well and it doesn't scratch or feel too rough, As I mentioned before, I do not notice much oily accumulation in the tub - although everyone else does - maybe it's because of that. Or in part because I'm just blind in the shower without my glasses, that just occurred to me! Although it doesn't seem slippery, either. Thank you for buying/comparing an actual Buffy bar and comparing it, the differences were something I was really curious about.

Preservatives: That's something that I mentioned earlier about the Lush Buffy bar, that they don't include preservatives in their list and don't seem to have issues with it, which is hard to believe. @Saffron and @VikingChick did suggest that there was one included but not specified as part of the listed fragrance. Like you, I would definitely not forgo a preservative in something with so much foodstuff exposed to so much water. I think I may have use Optiphen Plus in the first couple of rounds of bars, I didn't realize it was not OK with anhydrous products! Thanks for flagging that. I will switch to Optiphen or maybe some kind of combo of Germall/Phenonip/Optiphen after thinking about it a bit. Although because Phenonip is paraben based it might not work based on what you said above.

I might be totally mis-remembering this but there seem to be some kind of bookmark in my brain about a recipe using Phenonip where it was divided and added in two lots during high temp and low temp phases to maximize effectiveness, but I can't remember it that was an anhydrous recipe (my memory is horrible these days). I googled very quickly and found this in the chemist's corner, I'm not sure if it weighs in favor of using phenonip or not. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetic...paraben-should-i-use-methyl-or-propyl-or-mix/
Let us know what you end up doing on the preservative front. It feels strange to think of using preservatives with an anhydrous formula because it's been so long since I've made one that would be used around water, but years ago I used to make a scrub recipe (the Holy Grail scrub recipe from the Dish) and that one used Phenonip. The directions there only say to melt the hard items, add the soft oils, then add the Phenonip, so not much help on process.

Durability: I have not had an issue with the bars becoming more malleable/gloppier when they get smaller, they just get harder to apply as they approach the sliver stage. But like you I have thought of whether using a harder butter like kokum for part of the shea or adding a bit of stearic/cetyl/cetearyl would make them last longer without losing too much slip. I think that will be a delicate balance.

 

[Tammyfarms]

I edited my last post based on thinking more about my testing results with the last mini-bar. I forgot to add that I'm also thinking about the possibility of using other types of exfoliants, such as ??? ground loofah, ground almond or walnut shell, etc??? They would all be more resistant to microbial degradation compared with almond and rice flour. Fine pumice would work, but I think the label appeal would be pretty low in this kind of bar. Oat or wheat bran? Does anyone have any other suggestions?

I honestly don’t know how it would work for an exfoliant but how about cocoa powder? Cocoa powder and cocoa butter sounds like a great combo.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Preservatives: Now that I've tested, I'm not comfortable with a preservative-free strategy, even for a small bar. Some of my friends pride themselves on being able to use my soap down to the very last sliver and I worry that they won't toss the last bit of butter from a single use bar. The ideal preservative would have some water solubility to ensure that it's active when the exfoliants are in contact with the water, but it has to be oil soluble for the anhydrous formulation. It looks like the choices might come down to Optiphen, which is suitable for anhydrous and water soluble products (but not Optiphen Plus is which not suitable for anhydrous products according to SCM) or a paraben-based preservative or possibly something that is not in the preservative tables I have (SCM and Making Skincare). According to the Making Skincare table, paraben-based preservatives must be added to the water phase or they will remain in the oil phase and have reduced activity against bacteria and fungi. That's obviously an issue when there is no water phase.

Preservatives: That's something that I mentioned earlier about the Lush Buffy bar, that they don't include preservatives in their list and don't seem to have issues with it, which is hard to believe. @Saffron and @VikingChick did suggest that there was one included but not specified as part of the listed fragrance. Like you, I would definitely not forgo a preservative in something with so much foodstuff exposed to so much water. I think I may have use Optiphen Plus in the first couple of rounds of bars, I didn't realize it was not OK with anhydrous products! Thanks for flagging that. I will switch to Optiphen or maybe some kind of combo of Germall/Phenonip/Optiphen after thinking about it a bit. Although because Phenonip is paraben based it might not work based on what you said above.

Preservative - Thank you both! I immediately went and grabbed my notebook and made notes to correct my prior use of Optiphen Plus.

Exfoliant - any thoughts on ground orange peel?

Durability - I still haven’t gotten around to making a batch with 2% beeswax to see how that impacts durability and slip, but it’s still in my head as an idea.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Before I head off to work.

Here's something I just read this morning - a way to make the water soluble preservative work in an anhydrous product (from Making Skincare, on the Preservative Review page):

"For anhydrous (no water) products or scrubs, if water may be introduced to the product or the product used in a humid bathroom then a preservative is advisable. An expert microbiologist advises that if trying to preserve an anhydrous product (including all oil+sugar/salt scrub) the oil soluble preservative will get locked in the oils so will not reach any water, if water was introduced into the product. So if you added an oil soluble preservative then that preservative will stay in the oils and not move over to where the water is located to protect that water against bacteria and mould so would be useless. So contrary to what you may have read, we should really use a water soluble preservative in an anhydrous product which means we need to add an emulsifier to get that preservative mixed in properly with the oils."

And other things from my notes:

There are a number of ChemistsCorner threads on preserving anhydrous formulations, but I don't recall any mentioning the emulsifier trick:
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetic...soluble-preservative-to-an-anhydrous-product/
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetic...r-soluble-preservative-for-anhydrous-product/ - this one mentions Caprylyl Glycol + Glyceryl Caprylate (and) Glyceryl Undecylenate, which is Jeecide (there are two types available at LotionCrafter and the Cap-7 one is oil soluble)
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/preservative-for-anhydrous-products/ (mentions Euxyl PE 9010)

Has anyone used Euxyl PE 9010? or Jeecide Cap-7? (both available from LotionCrafter).

HB&M also provides a table of preservatives, here: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/preservatives/

What Lush could be doing: there's discussion of Naticide and other preservative that pass as "parfum", on the ChemistsCorner website, here: https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetic...parfum-inci-really-be-used-as-a-preservative/

and here's an info page on natural preservatives and strategies: https://chemistscorner.com/natural-cosmetic-preservative-ingredients-and-strategies/

re. other exfoliants

The composition of some organic compounds makes them suitable as food for microbes, while other compounds are "refractory/recalcitrant" and difficult to use as food due to digestibility/chemical structure/composition. Ground up people food of any kind is going to fall in the category of digestible, unless we're talking about fiber-type products that are selected/designed to be indigestible. Cocoa beens are edible and digestible. Same with orange peel. This contrasts with organic carbon compounds that provide structure to plants, like seed shells, wood, leaves, husks and old plant stalks. These parts are highly resistant to microbial degradation due mostly to their chemical composition (lots of carbon with very little nitrogen and phosphorus).

ETA: Other exfoliants to consider: very small seeds, like poppy or cranberry might work. How about jojoba beads? I've never purchased any due to the price point and lack of knowledge. I'm also looking at oat and wheat bran. Salt??? or even sugar, with a preservative in play, but I wonder how these would effect the consistency/behavior of the bar as they dissolve on the outer surface.

I may mix potential organic exfoliants with a bit of water (and also water plus preservative?), keep them damp and then watch how long it takes mold to develop. Key question - will the seeds sprout???

 

[not_ally]

@Mobjack Bay what do you think about using a solubilizer? I'm sure this is somehow inapplicable as a shortcut because the CC people would have been like "just use a solubilizer!" but it seem like it woul be the quickest fix if it were to work. I think I read something about this (maybe in one of your links? I get confused because I inevitably go on to other posts in the links and forget where I started) but it was a brief reference and didn't really explore it.

More here https://formulabotanica.com/solubiliser-vs-emulsifier/#:~:text=Solubilisers are a group of,herbal infusion or a hydrosol).

"Key question - will the seeds sprout???" Good lord, now I have images in my head of a poppy growing out of one of my Buffy bars. Hm, maybe a billion dollar marketing idea! JK

 

[AliOop]

@not_ally what a great link - thank you! I'm going to be spending some time link-chasing through their related articles on this subject.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

what do you think about using a solubilizer? I'm sure this is somehow inapplicable as a shortcut because the CC people would have been like "just use a solubilizer!" but it seem like it woul be the quickest fix if it were to work.

Good question...

According to this related webpage, which was linked to the page you linked, "Solubilizers are used to mix very small amounts of oils into aqueous solutions ..." I found the same statement on the makingskincare website. I guess we need to know what happens when a solubilizer is mixed into a lipid base instead of water. Thinking that led me to search on the most common solubilizer I could think of using this search - "polysorbate 80 in a lotion bar" - which turned up an HB&M solubilizer page where she shares this information and more on other solubilizers:

"Polysorbate 80 is really useful for solubilizing small amounts of oils into otherwise mostly watery things, like toners or body mists. I’ll also use it in 100% oil based products (like cleansing balms or oils) or products that need very low water levels (like bath bombs). In a cleansing balm or oil it functions as a cleansing/rinse-off-boosting ingredient because one end of the molecule loves oil while the other end loves water; the oil loving end grabs oil soluble things from the skin and the water soluble end grabs into the water you’re washing with for easier wash off."

For a buffy-type bar, I'd want to use whichever product - solubilizer vs. emulsifier - results in the least wash off. I'm not crazy about adding polysorbate 80 to the bar, but I can try it since I already have some.

For some additional critique of the problem and solutions, read what the Soap Kitchen in the UK has to say about preserving anhydrous scrubs. They're recommending use of a 2-part preservative - with both water and oil solubility characteristics.

ETA: it looks like Euxyl PE 9010 and Jeecide Cap-7 both have some water solubility or dispersability.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Gentle bump on this thread. Has anyone tried using a solubilizer like PS-80 in an oil cleanser or lotion bar? I may try it this weekend.

 

[AliOop]

I have used it at 25% in a liquid face cleanser. It worked well for me with no sink residue, and no skin irritation. Surprising, since I generally react to everything.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

It turns out that I also have Capryl / Caprylyl Glucoside, which functions as a surfactant and solubilizer and can be used in place of polysorbate 80 according to Formula Botanica. That's good because I can't remember why I bought in the first place.

Also, found a thread on Euxyl 9010

 

[AliOop]

That's good because I can't remember why I bought in the first place.

Thank you for helping me feel better about the contents of my soapy cabinets, because often I am.... ??

 

[dmcgee5034]

Made a version today - used Shea and cocoa butter at 30% each, and added 2% beeswax. I want to see where the balance of “not melting away quite so fast” and “oh, that doesn’t glide as well” meet.