Polysorbate 20 vs 80

[Kleine Teufel]

Trying to keep my costs down, I'm wondering if you can use 80 in place of 20? I know that 80 is more for heavier oils than what 20 is, so in theory, it should work for both light and heavy oils, correct?

 

[itunu]

According to swiftcraftymonkey's site yes. I just used Poly 80 to solubilise essential oils into water and it worked. I used 2% essential oils and 3% poly 80.

 

[birdcharm]

I am not comfortable with using Polysorbates at all ... from what I have been reading, they are not necessarily a "good thing" to use from a health (or environmental ) point of view.

Kathy

 

[Hazel]

What have you been reading?

I'm curious because I haven't read anything about the polysorbates used in cosmetics and food as being hazardous. Except for another "report" picked up and spread across the Internet that polysorbate 60 or polysorbate 80 may be contaminated with 1,4-dioxane. It made me think of the paraben scare from a few years back. Of course, there's always a chance of sensitivity or an allergic reaction but that can be said about everything.

For more info on 1,4-dioxane - http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productand ... 101566.htm

I take it back - there was a concern about the use of polysorbate 80 being used in a flu vaccine. But the dosage used in the tests was much higher than what was used in the vaccine. Anything can be hazardous when used in high dosages.

 

[birdcharm]

Hi Hazel,

I found one of my notes of what I was reading ... although I have read this in other places (would need to find my notes later) ... here is a quote from one of the articles ...

"Both polysorbate 60 and polysorbate 80 may also be
contaminated with 1,4-dioxane."
(Epstein, Dr Samuel, Safe Shoppers Bible, P.190-191)"
www.health-report.co.uk/sodium...te.html


Kathy

 

[Hazel]

.. here is a quote from one of the articles ...

"Both polysorbate 60 and polysorbate 80 may also be
contaminated with 1,4-dioxane."
(Epstein, Dr Samuel, Safe Shoppers Bible, P.190-191)"
www.health-report.co.uk/sodium...te.html

I kind of figured this was the concern you mentioned. This book is probably the original source that people have been quoting online. You do realize this book is 17 years old and manufacturing processes have changed to decrease the chance of contamination? (At least in the US, I don't know about other countries.)

I haven't read the book but I'm sure it had a lot of helpful info when it was originally published. With all the changes over the years, I think I'd investigate further than accept a statement that an ingredient may be contaminated from a dated source. However, this is just my opinion. But concerns about the safety of ingredients is why we chose to make our own products, right?

BTW, your link didn't work for me. I got a message that the URL was not found on the server.

 

[birdcharm]

Hi Hazel,

It could be that the manufacturing processes have changed ... thanks for that information. I know it's an approved ingredient, for instance, in ice cream, etc., but there are still some issues with it, possibly not from a dermal usage standpoint, but I can't be sure of that exactly. From what I understand, it is being used in a flu vaccine and has been noted as possibly causing infertility. I guess there was some study with mice, which seems to be noted in various articles.

As I said, I'm not sure what the risks would be when applied to the skin over and over. In my case, with what I make, I need to stay clear of it regardless.

If interested, here is a little info. on it in regard to these issues:


"Polysorbate 80 probably induced a skin tumour in a mouse treated repeatedly by the dermal route."
http://www.bibra-information.co.uk/profile-337.html
In oral and skin painting studies in mice, it increased the yield of tumours induced by established carcinogens.

~~~

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/polysorbate.html
According to Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology, Volume 95, Number 6, December 2005 , pp. 593-599(7), "it is of current relevance as a 'hidden' inductor of anaphylactoid reactions", and "Polysorbate 80 was identified as the causative agent for the anaphylactoid reaction of nonimmunologic origin in the patient. Conclusions: Polysorbate 80 is a ubiquitously used solubilizing agent that can cause severe nonimmunologic anaphylactoid reactions."

~~~

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8473 ... t=Abstract
Delayed effects of neonatal exposure to Tween 80 on female reproductive organs in rats

~~~

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
Polysorbate Toxicity in Neonatal Rats and Mice
(this one cannot be read without being a member) ...
just listed it so you can see that there are some
studies on this in regard to these issues.

~~~

So, it may not mean anything to us using it in body products ...
or, could it? I don't know, but there's some info. about it anyway,
for what it's worth!

Kathy

 

[Hazel]

Thanks for sharing the links. I'm sure many people will find it interesting. But I want to point out that the amounts used in research are high percentages compared to what people would be exposed to in normal topical use. Also, as I stated earlier, there's always a chance of an allergic reaction to any ingredient. Personally, I don't worry about that the minimal amount used in products may cause a skin tumor. I worry more about not using sunscreen and getting a bad sunburn. I know positively a bad sunburn will damage my skin and cause tumors. Plus I will never, ever give up ice cream.

 

[Genny]

Plus I will never, ever give up ice cream.

I found out that there was some nasty things that go into making the cookie dough in cookie dough icecream, so I switched to Mint Chocolate Chip

 

[Hazel]

What nasty things? Is there more warnings about polysorbate 80? :shock:

 

[Kleine Teufel]

Whew, glad I've been keeping up with this... I can't read anymore if someone is going to post the yuckies in cookie dough icecream, lol! I rarely eat icecream (maybe once a year) but my icecream of choice is cookie dough! Lol.

 

[Genny]

What nasty things? Is there more warnings about polysorbate 80? :shock:

LOL No, it was what made cookie dough in cookie dough ice ceam stick together and be shiny. I believe I saw it on one of Jamie Oliver's shows and there were duck feathers involved. It was quite gagworthy.

 

[Kleine Teufel]

Curiousity killed the cat... errr the cravings for cookie dough icecream. Then again, duck is my favorite meat... maybe that's why I like the icecream so much? Lol.

 

[Hazel]

I'm glad now that I dislike cookie dough ice cream and won't eat it.

 

[saltydog]

so, bettacreek, have you tried this yet?
i have some poly80 and would love to try a body spray & wondering if the solution comes out clear?

 

[Kleine Teufel]

Honestly, I haven't tried it yet. I haven't even ordered any yet! This project is going on the back burner for awhile. I have too many projects going on at the moment and not enough yucky days to stay inside to keep up inventory, tinker with all these new experiments and play with my incubator with my eggs in it, lol.

 

[jameshan]

Polysorbate 20 you can see the details here: http://www.yameiaspartame.com/products/polysorbate-20/
Polysorbate 80 you can see the details here: http://www.yameiaspartame.com/products/polysorbate-80/