Palm Oil Pressure...sigh

[nattynoo]

Has anyone cut out palm oil from their soaps no matter if its sustainable or not due to general pressure from people???
What do you do with this?
I've got pressure left right & centre on the palm debate.
Palm oil brings the cost down considerably. Not only that I like the properties the palm brings to my bars.
Should I just cut the palm oil?????

Could olive, coconut & ricebran work??
Wonder if it would be hard enough. Might have to run some figures thru soapcalc. All my soap testing has been done on palm.... :shock:

I plan on selling my soaps....soon!! In the process of setting everything up ATM. I'm already getting emails from people wanting to buy my soaps but asking the palm question already :cry: .......I just don't know if I want to be debating palm oil for the next 10 years...if you know what I mean.

Any thoughts on this issue.... & please can we not turn it into a palm oil debate... my question is if I should cut the palm & how to replace it if I do.

 

[busymakinsoap!]

It sure is a tough one nattynoo. When I first started making soap I tried very hard not to use Palm. I trialled a few recipes they were ok, but I love my palm bars much better.

I have also purchased soap made from soapmakers who use the 'no palm' pitch as a means of advertising - and i didnt like the soap.

I have been able to source palm oil that is sustainable, I let people know that. Perhaps you could mention it on a web site? Explain to people what sustainable palm is and how its sourced?

What would a substitute for palm be? Lard? And then what.....hundreds of vegetarians complaining about the mistreatment of animals?

I purchased a multi purpose cleaner from the supermarket. Its called 'Earth Choice', the front of the bottle claims to be natural, plant based, no petrochemical cleaners and in a 100% recycled bottle.
The main ingredient is palm, which I doubt is sustainable.......how many 'greenies' would have picked up on this??
This is just an example of how widely it is used -but nobody reads the ingredients!

I would not use palm if it were not sustainable, and I am confident that in providing a sustainable option I am giving people what the supermarkets cant. I provide an environmentaly friendly option that is a hell of a lot nicer to use!

And if you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it - how is cocoa butter sourced? shea butter? do people cut rain forests down to harvest trees that produce these VERY popular butters?

 

[judymoody]

My favorite recipe doesn't contain palm. It has PKO, CO, OO, high oleic sunflower or safflower, and castor. I don't particularly like working with palm because of separation, stearic streaks in finished bars, etc.

If you like it, I would use sustainable palm as the other poster suggested. Or maybe have a soap or two in your line that is "palm free."

Palm can be sustainable; petrochemicals aren't. Maybe tell them that.

I'm sure that other tropical oils are also problematic in how they are produced. But to go all organic, free trade, and sustainable would probably result in a hugely expensive bar of soap that nobody could afford.

 

[agriffin]

I've been soaping with a palm/lard/tallow free recipe and I think it is my favorite bar so far.

Avocado oil - 6 oz
Castor oil - 2 oz
Cocoa butter - 4 oz
Coconut oil - 8 oz
Olive oil - 12 oz

Personally I don't have a problem using lard or tallow as a sub for palm but some people just don't want animal fats in their soap. I don't have a problem using palm but you do have to make what people ask for (for the most part).

 

[nattynoo]

Thanks for the replies peeps. I appreciate your thoughts.
If only the general public was aware that palm oil is in just about everything. Poor old soap takes a flogging on the subject.
There's ads running at the moment in Australia on palm oil so it stirs the pot even more so.

 

[musiccitysuds]

I get my palm oil from Soaper's Choice. They have a palm oil that is sustainable and certified organic. It's a little pricier, but it's worth it for the peace of mind.

 

[kelleyaynn]

Brambleberry also states that they make sure their palm oil is sustainably harvested. There is no certification of that, so you are left to take them at their word, but that's what they say.

Not sure if this is true, but it seems to be a bigger deal in Australia than in the US. Perhaps because our Australian soapers are closer to the source?

 

[sandyfootfarm]

I have never used palm in my soaps and my guinea pigs love them, but I don't have a palm to non palm comparison. I won't use palm because I am a primatologist and I know that the current system of certified palm isn't working as it should. Farms that are not doing the right thing are able to get accredited. Don't forget they are a country that is still dealing with a high level of corruption. Do a bit of googling to read about the problems with the round table.

 

[cinta]

I've never used palm oil in my soaps, and I have always been happy with the results (as are family & friends who use my soaps). Be honest when you try my Autumn soap...I appreciate feedback, good & bad! :wink:

 

[Relle]

I'm buying sustainable palm from Heirloom, I'm putting on my label that it is sustainable palm and haven't had any issues so far with the people buying my soap. As someone said, maybe you could do a couple palm free and just use palm in the others. I made soap years ago without palm and used lard, but now I think about it I'd rather put palm in as it seems to be creamier to me.

 

[nattynoo]

Cinta - I noticed your soap had no palm. I think there is another one or two palm free in the mix too. I'm keen to see the difference. My soap for the swap has palm.

After alot of deliberation I think I'm going to go palm free. I'll use it as a selling point...lol. I don't like confrontation one bit. Its done my head in already after just a handful of emails.

I've priced things out today & it doesn't make alot of difference to cut the palm anyway. Maybe $1/2 per kilo is all. I'll trial an olive, coconut, ricebran & maybe cocoa butter or something tomorrow. When I first started soaping I didn't use any palm & my soaps were fine. In fact I still have a couple of my very first soaps there.

 

[busymakinsoap!]

I just wanted to clarify on my previous post.

I didnt mean that ALL soap without palm is not as good. Just my stuff and a couple I have tried - hope I didnt offend anyone :shock:

This thread has got me thinking about palm free bars, Ive played around with soapcalc and I think I might give it another go - steric streaks are giving me grief.

Im thinking of adding some shea, and upping my cocoa butter....much more expensive though, but soapcalc figures look good....

 

[nattynoo]

stearic streaks send me loopy..... they give me grief too.
My sisiter said the other day...ow they're pretty swirls u put in... :wink:

 

[Dragonkaz]

Nattynoo I won't use any form of palm oil in my soap. I make vegan soap so the oils I use are -

Olive Oil
Coconut Oil
Rice Bran Oil
Castor Oil
Cocoa Butter

I've been using this recipe for quite some time ... not always with the cocoa butter, and I love it and the people I give it to say they love it also.

I'm being asked to sell my soap, but I'm still not sure when (if ever) I'll be ready to do that. If I should sell, I'll definitely include that it is palm oil free.

Cinta I'm looking forward to trying your palm oil free soap ... mine is palm oil free also.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Coconut, Rice Bran and Olive will work, plus you can add shea butter or cocoa butter if you like. I make mainly palm free for my own use. :wink:

 

[heyjude]

I've never had anyone I give soap to mention any issue surrounding palm. Once I did have someone wish that I made more veggie soaps, but for most they just like free soap!