Options About Adding Earl Grey Tea to CP Liquid & Bar Soap

[DesertRose]

Hi All.

I love the smell and the taste of earl grey tea a lot. So thinking of using it both in my liquid and bar soap and i've been considering my options about how to add it effectively.

- For CP bar soap, I want to use the tea instead of water. I plan to brew earl grey tea with distilled water, freeze it and make earl grey ice cubes. Then i'm gonna add the lye over those ice cubes and add some tea leaves as well. Is it a bad idea ? I need your recommendations.

- For CP liquid soap, can i use brewed tea instead of water ? And also, once the curing process is completed, can i dilute it with brewed tea instead of water ? Does using tea for dilution cause rancidity ?

My main goal is to give the scent of Bergamot as much as possible.

Thanks.

 

[dibbles]

You can use tea for a liquid in CP soap, but don’t count on any scent from the tea remaining. The tea leaves may also be quite scratchy, so you would want to grind them to a pretty fine powder.
I’ve only made liquid soap twice, so I’ll leave those questions for someone who knows more than I do.

 

[AliOop]

The acids in the tea are going to mess with your liquid soap, and the scent will not remain in either LS or CP. It would be better to use a bergamot FO or EO for scent.

 

[Blufuz]

I don’t think you need to freeze your tea, just let it cool to room temperature; my lye water never really got passed 80 C, which is the temperature I brew tea at

Also, I tried CP with bergamot EO and it’s quite weak; might need a lot or maybe FO might linger longer.

Definitely grind your tea leaves to a powder or at least flakes the size of glitter. Keep in mind they can seep a little in the soap, so don’t aim for a light-colored soap.

 

[KiwiMoose]

For CP - I have done the same with chamomile tea as you describe above. And I did use the leaves but make sure they are the same leaves you used to brew the tea to minimise the colour bleeding as the soap cures. Yes - i did grind them up as fine as I could.
See if you can find a bergamot and/or white tea fragrance oil, rather than essential oil, Bergamot essential oil doesn't really hold in CP soap.

 

[artemis]

I have used a strong earl grey tea as my water and didn't freeze at all. I just used it as a replacement for my water. There were no problems there. There was no smell at all from the tea.

I have used peppermint "tea" leaves and can report that such a thing is indeed very scratchy.

If I wanted a truly "Earl grey" soap, I would probably look into bergamot eo, since that's what makes that tea smell and taste the way it does.

 

[AliOop]

I should clarify that my recommendation against using the tea was only in reference to liquid soap, not CP or HP.

I actually used Earl Grey tea, and the ground leaves, to make my first ever CP soap, based on the Lovely Greens recipe found on her website. It worked quite well, although after years of HP, I was surprised by how long it took to stop feeling greasy and to start acting like soap. The used tea leaves did stain the surrounding soap a bit, but it didn't look bad. The bergamot EO made for a nice light scent that lasted for about 18 months. I prefer lightly-scented soap, but those who like it to be stronger probably wouldn't have been happy with it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I love the smell and the taste of earl grey tea a lot.

Me too!

So thinking of using it both in my liquid and bar soap and i've been considering my options about how to add it effectively.

Early on I made a lot of herbal soaps using teas and dried herbs for colorants.
For CP, HP & LS: The most effective method is oil infusion. The scent does not come through.

For CP/HP: You can also brew the tea and keep it in the fridge until you're ready to soap it -- for 3 days max. or it will go south on ya'. Cold tea brings the lye solution down to soaping temp quicker.

Does using tea for dilution cause rancidity ?

For LS: I believe the addition of any botanical puts the soap at risk for going off at some point, although I know of one member in India who said it worked for her.

My main goal is to give the scent of Bergamot as much as possible.

I would search for an "Earl Grey Tea" FO. Then add a bit of Bergamot EO to it to top off the scent.

 

[DeeAnna]

You could make the liquid (KOH) soap paste using tea, no problem, but I recommend diluting liquid soap only with distilled water. Never dilute liquid soap with anything that is a source of food for microorganisms -- milk, aloe, teas, hydrosols, other water infusions, etc.

When tea is used as the water-based liquid to make the soap paste, the tea will be directly exposed to active lye in the soap batter. It's also only a small part of the finished product. The liquid used for dilution is by far and away the main ingredient in diluted liquid soap.

Even if you decide to add a preservative to the diluted soap (choose one that's rated for the high pH of soap), you simply cannot also load the product with food sources and expect the preservative to be effective for long. It's important to use sanitary manufacturing methods and minimize sources of food in the product so the preservative has half a chance to do its job properly.

 

[DesertRose]

The acids in the tea are going to mess with your liquid soap, and the scent will not remain in either LS or CP. It would be better to use a bergamot FO or EO for scent.

I used Bergamot EO for my first liquid soap but the scent is barely noticable, i can still smell castor oil in it.

 

[AliOop]

I used Bergamot EO for my first liquid soap but the scent is barely noticable, i can still smell castor oil in it.

I hear ya... everyone's sniffer is different. For me, bergamot is one of those scents that overpowers everything else, but I can barely smell castor oil at all.

 

[DesertRose]

I don’t think you need to freeze your tea, just let it cool to room temperature; my lye water never really got passed 80 C, which is the temperature I brew tea at

Also, I tried CP with bergamot EO and it’s quite weak; might need a lot or maybe FO might linger longer.

Definitely grind your tea leaves to a powder or at least flakes the size of glitter. Keep in mind they can seep a little in the soap, so don’t aim for a light-colored soap.

Thank you, yes bergamot EO is really weak. I ordered Vanilla-Patchouli + Sandalwood this time and also i consider adding a small amount of bergamot again.

For CP - I have done the same with chamomile tea as you describe above. And I did use the leaves but make sure they are the same leaves you used to brew the tea to minimise the colour bleeding as the soap cures. Yes - i did grind them up as fine as I could.
See if you can find a bergamot and/or white tea fragrance oil, rather than essential oil, Bergamot essential oil doesn't really hold in CP soap.

Thank you. Yes EO of bergamot is really weak but my supplier only sells EO form, i need to order from another place.

I have used a strong earl grey tea as my water and didn't freeze at all. I just used it as a replacement for my water. There were no problems there. There was no smell at all from the tea.

I have used peppermint "tea" leaves and can report that such a thing is indeed very scratchy.

If I wanted a truly "Earl grey" soap, I would probably look into bergamot eo, since that's what makes that tea smell and taste the way it does.

This is the tea that we consume, Cliffield, it has an intense and great smell and also very delicious;

I will grind those tea leaves before adding. What i find weird is that Cliffield earl grey tea smells a lot better than original bergamot EO. My soap material supplier is reliable and famous in Turkey. So i don't think that they sell easy quality bergamot EO.

I should clarify that my recommendation against using the tea was only in reference to liquid soap, not CP or HP.

I actually used Earl Grey tea, and the ground leaves, to make my first ever CP soap, based on the Lovely Greens recipe found on her website. It worked quite well, although after years of HP, I was surprised by how long it took to stop feeling greasy and to start acting like soap. The used tea leaves did stain the surrounding soap a bit, but it didn't look bad. The bergamot EO made for a nice light scent that lasted for about 18 months. I prefer lightly-scented soap, but those who like it to be stronger probably wouldn't have been happy with it.

So you say that i can use the tea for cold process bar soap right ?

I've ordered kaolin clay, Vanilla-Patchouli FO + Sandalwood FO. This time i'm gonna use fragrance oils but i can add a little bergamot EO as well.

Me too!

Early on I made a lot of herbal soaps using teas and dried herbs for colorants.
For CP, HP & LS: The most effective method is oil infusion. The scent does not come through.

For CP/HP: You can also brew the tea and keep it in the fridge until you're ready to soap it -- for 3 days max. or it will go south on ya'. Cold tea brings the lye solution down to soaping temp quicker.

For LS: I believe the addition of any botanical puts the soap at risk for going off at some point, although I know of one member in India who said it worked for her.

I would search for an "Earl Grey Tea" FO. Then add a bit of Bergamot EO to it to top off the scent.

I don't think i can find ''Earl Grey Tea'' FO here, just found this one;
https://www.arifoglu.com/bergamotaromatransmitter50ml

You could make the liquid (KOH) soap paste using tea, no problem, but I recommend diluting liquid soap only with distilled water. Never dilute liquid soap with anything that is a source of food for microorganisms -- milk, aloe, teas, hydrosols, other water infusions, etc.

When tea is used as the water-based liquid to make the soap paste, the tea will be directly exposed to active lye in the soap batter. It's also only a small part of the finished product. The liquid used for dilution is by far and away the main ingredient in diluted liquid soap.

Even if you decide to add a preservative to the diluted soap (choose one that's rated for the high pH of soap), you simply cannot also load the product with food sources and expect the preservative to be effective for long. It's important to use sanitary manufacturing methods and minimize sources of food in the product so the preservative has half a chance to do its job properly.

Thank you, your comments mean reference for me. I gave up the idea of using sunflower oil after seeing your comment about your rule of thumb which is keeping linoleic + linolenic acid profile below %15, preferably %5.

We grow our own sunflowers in our village, my family runs a small nut factory and i can easily find high oleic sunflower oil but i want high lather and bubbles and also want my soap to have a longer life. As far as i know, sunflower and avocado oil go rancid easily.

Based on the contributions of you all, here are the lessons i've learned;
- I can use tea for soap paste liquid but it's not a good idea using it as dilution water,
- I need to grind the the leaves well before adding,
- Using tea may cause the finished soap go darker colour,

Thank you all

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I don't think i can find ''Earl Grey Tea'' FO here, just found this one;
https://www.arifoglu.com/bergamotaromatransmitter50ml

That's a "Flavor" oil similar to Vanilla flavor used in cooking. Not good for scenting soap. Too weak and may contain alcohol.

 

[DesertRose]

Can you help me with my recipe ?

- It shows the longevity at the low limit, does it become a problem ?
- Does salt or vinegar help with longevity ?
- Can i add sugar granule or syrup for more lather ? If yes, what is the optimum percentage ?
- What percentage or gram can i add bergamot tea leaves to that recipe ?
- And also i have some kaolin clay, how much should i add and how ?

Thank you.

 

[Blufuz]

Can you help me with my recipe ?

- It shows the longevity at the low limit, does it become a problem ?
- Does salt or vinegar help with longevity ?
- Can i add sugar granule or syrup for more lather ? If yes, what is the optimum percentage ?
- What percentage or gram can i add bergamot tea leaves to that recipe ?
- And also i have some kaolin clay, how much should i add and how ?

Thank you.

To extend longevity, don’t use salt! My ongoing experiment shows that it makes things worse. Use citric acid or even baking soda instead (as much as you can dissolve in water).

Sugar will help with lather, but a little goes a long way; I think the recommendation is 1 tsp per pound of oil, but I’m not sure.

You can add almost as many tea leaves as you want, but maybe 1 tbsp for a pound of soap is a good upper limit.

I found out that you can add almost as much kaolin clay as is physically possible before it turns to soap on a stick; the soap is still nice. I’d recommend a tablespoon for pound of oil though.

Disclaimer: I’ve been soaping for less than a year, and this advice comes from parroting others and a few home experiments.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

To extend longevity, don’t use salt! My ongoing experiment shows that it makes things worse.

Nonsense! LOL My ZNSC (made with faux sea salt) lasts longer than any other soap I make. I wash my face with it AM and PM. When I'm down to the last of it, it retains its shape which makes it easy to press into a new bar. No waste.
The purpose of adding salt to the lye solution is to increase hardness not for adding to longevity.

Use citric acid or even baking soda instead (as much as you can dissolve in water).

Check out @DeeAnna 's Soapy Stuff for info on citric acid and baking soda in HP/ CP. As far as I can recall, rather than adding to longevity, one is a chealator the other is a water softener.

Sugar will help with lather, but a little goes a long way; I think the recommendation is 1 tsp per pound of oil, but I’m not sure.

I never have used sugar or similar to add lather to soap. Although it's becoming increasingly popular on SMF, you don't need it. When designing soap formulas, focus on using coconut oil, PKO, and castor that are the main FAs for lather.

You can add almost as many tea leaves as you want, but maybe 1 tbsp for a pound of soap is a good upper limit.

Dry additives such as tea leaves, activated charcoal, herbs and spices can be added to the batch at a rate of 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon PPO. All can be scratchy which is good of you're going for exfoliation. If you want a speckled effect, but not scratchy, first grind them to a fine powder. For beneficial properties and a smooth bar, infuse in oil and strain before using.

you can add almost as much kaolin clay as is physically possible

YIKES!
The recommended amount for clays is the same as for other dry materials, i.e., 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon PPO, Keep in mind that clays suck up water like a sponge so allow enough water in the batch for that or wet it with some of the water in the recipe before adding.

Disclaimer: I’ve been soaping for less than a year, and this advice comes from parroting others and a few home experiments.

I don't want my comments to discourage you from speaking from your experience but "parroting others" is a bad idea and may be more hurtful than helpful, depending on who you're parroting. Sharing your own experience is most welcome and the best way to add valuable input.

HTH

 

[DesertRose]

The recommended amount for clays is the same as for other dry materials, i.e., 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon PPO, Keep in mind that clays suck up water like a sponge so allow enough water in the batch for that or wet it with some of the water in the recipe before adding.

It's claimed that mixing clay with fragrance oils increase the longevity of the scent. How about mixing clay with fragrance oils first and then add to the oils instead of water ?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It's claimed that mixing clay with fragrance oils increase the longevity of the scent. How about mixing clay with fragrance oils first and then add to the oils instead of water ?

That's the way I do it. But then, I am a little forgetful and I do that to help me to remember to put in all the additives I'm using before adding the lye solution.

Generally speaking, FOs "stick" better than EO's which are known to dissipate at about the 6-month mark. But both types of fragrance may come alive once the soap is used. I think EOs in combination with a complementary FO may be the best way to get fragrance to last. Not sure.

Whether it helps to "stick" the scent or not is up for debate. Can't hurt; might help.

 

[Blufuz]

Nonsense! LOL My ZNSC (made with faux sea salt) lasts longer than any other soap I make. I wash my face with it AM and PM. When I'm down to the last of it, it retains its shape which makes it easy to press into a new bar. No waste.
The purpose of adding salt to the lye solution is to increase hardness not for adding to longevity.

I'm glad to know that ZNSC lasts a long time, I have a ton curing in my basement and it needs to last well passed chirstmas!

I recently tested which ingredients can protect against DOS by using 100% sunflower oil soap, left in the sun with pennies in the middle: How to create DOS

And I found that salt was the absolute worst. If your experience in practice is that saltwater improves longevity, then maybe it's just a problem when I was "mistreating" the soap for this test. But in ZNSC you also include baking soda, which I found was protective against DOS so maybe it was enough I found both citric acid and baking soda equally good at preventing DOS.

Other than DOS, how else does soap "go bad"?

The recommended amount for clays is the same as for other dry materials, i.e., 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon PPO, Keep in mind that clays suck up water like a sponge so allow enough water in the batch for that or wet it with some of the water in the recipe before adding.

I actually also tested the kaolin clay thing myself: No-blender recipes

I used up to 10 tbsp of clay per pound of soap, and it was still a decent soap. It did in fact absorb the water, which actually made the soap a darker green than with no clay added.

I don't want my comments to discourage you from speaking from your experience but "parroting others" is a bad idea and may be more hurtful than helpful, depending on who you're parroting. Sharing your own experience is most welcome and the best way to add valuable input.

I agree that its better to have experience with these things rather than just repeat advice from others. I just "parroted" numbers for tea and sugar.

And now, I'm in the process of also testing whether sugar really helps. I made a batch of salt bars today (which usually have low lather no matter how much CO), half with honey and half without. I'll find out in 4 months if its worth the effort!

 

[DesertRose]

That's the way I do it. But then, I am a little forgetful and I do that to help me to remember to put in all the additives I'm using before adding the lye solution.

Generally speaking, FOs "stick" better than EO's which are known to dissipate at about the 6-month mark. But both types of fragrance may come alive once the soap is used. I think EOs in combination with a complementary FO may be the best way to get fragrance to last. Not sure.

Whether it helps to "stick" the scent or not is up for debate. Can't hurt; might help.

Thank you !

I'll combine with Patchouli-Vanilla FO + Sandalwood FO + Bergamot EO. I tried patchouli and sandalwood combination for my unscented liquid soap paste and the result made me happy, absolutely better than EO alone.

How about adding used tea leaves instead of dry ?