Irresponsible Soap "Teacher"

[KristaY]

A friend contacted me today and told me she attended a class and they made CP soap. She was really excited about it but had some concerns.

First, the "teacher" used no PPE's whatsoever. She was very nonchalant about mixing the lye, just poured the lye into the water and stirred it around without gloves, goggles or mask. Didn't even talk about lye safety. Luckily my friend is smarter than that so she backed away while the teacher was mixing. I certainly understand that safety and the use of PPE's is everyone's personal choice but she didn't even discuss the issue.

Then she tells me they used a recipe the teacher got off the internet. They made it exactly as it was written without verifying it's safety through a lye calculator. My friend didn't know what a lye calculator was as this was another area the teacher didn't mention.

She gave me the recipe including the amount of lye so I went to SoapCalc to see what the recipe looked like. The outcome is a soap with 30% CO and 2% SF. If the teacher was as nonchalant about measuring as she was about lye safety, it may even be a lye heavy soap. I explained how to do the tongue zap test so at least she'll know if she has safe soap. At the very least it'll be a drying soap.

I'm so irritated right now because the group of people that were in the class are young women with babies and small children. What if they decide that lye isn't dangerous and start mixing at home with the kids running under foot? What if they end up with lye heavy soap and use it on their babies?

The worst part for me is, the "teacher" is a medical professional. This type of irresponsibility is uncalled for especially when someone may be harmed by disregard of safety.

Jeez, I still feel smoke coming out of my ears, I'm that mad. So, I'm done with the rant but wanted to share with people that would understand my level of frustration!

 

[Susie]

Wow...that's....special....

Now you are going to look like an OCD alarmist for trying to tell her how to be safe while making soap.

 

[KristaY]

Good one Susie! I'm just thankful my friend is smarter than that but I have no idea about the rest of the people. The real clincher? My friend is due to have a baby in the next few days. The teacher? Her midwife. Scary. So scary....

 

[Susie]

Is this a nurse midwife? Or a regular midwife? Because that frankly scares me either way, but since I am a nurse, the first one makes me angry as well as scared for her patients and students..

 

[KristaY]

I'm in complete agreement with you Susie. I'm a nurse too so that's another reason I'm so furious about it. I believe she's an NP with an OB/GYN specialty practice. I could be wrong about the specifics of her degree but I know for sure she's a nurse. It makes me want to tell her pts to run far and run fast away from her.

 

[Hazel]

This is horribly irresponsible of this woman. I wonder how long she has been making soap. Obviously, not long enough to use her soap; otherwise, she would have known how drying this recipe would turn out. I'd also like to know what site she got the recipe. Is she charging money for this class? If so, she should be reported to whomever or whatever organization she is offering the class through so they're aware of the hazards. This may be cynical of me but I bet she doesn't even have liability insurance for the class.

 

[Seawolfe]

That is terrifying!

And nobody really learned anything except how to make a lousy batch of soap in an unsafe manner.

 

[KristaY]

I don't know the specifics of the class. If everyone paid for it, or if it was a gathering of friends trying to learn, I'm not sure. This took place in a different state than I live in so I don't know what the exact details of the situation are. I just know it was done in an unsafe manner that could harm people, especially these young women with small children. She's a very irresponsible professional, IMHO. When I explained a few things about soap making to my friend - PPE and lye safety, the use of a lye calculator, the drying quality of CO, etc - she said she had a conversation with her friends that attended and they all agreed my approach was much more "calculated". I completely agreed and told her "hell ya, I'm more calculated because I want to make safe, good quality soap!" Now she wants to come make soap with me the next time she's in town visiting family. I'm sure going to emphasize the safety of it all, not to mention how to make good soap!

I forgot to mention the recipe. She gave me amounts in whole numbers. So it was 24oz of this, 18oz of that, 20oz of another and 6oz lye with 24-30oz water. I didn't save the exact recipe but it used only the trifecta of oils - OO, CO & PO. I could be wrong on the exact numbers above but because everything was in whole numbers, it made me think it was a recipe created before online lye calculators that are much more exact in quantities. But then again, with her shoulder shrugging style, she may have rounded things off.

 

[misfities]

I used gloves and mask and all that the first two times I made soap. Since then I don't even bother with any of it. I just stand away from the lye water. If I splash some on my hand, I rinse it off. But, in answer to your post, the precautions need to be taught the first time around to newbies. Let them be lax like me, but at least they need to know what's what and make their own decisions. :sick:

 

[Susie]

You know...this is in the beginner forum...where beginners come to read good, safe information.

And now they read that folks think that gloves, goggles, and masks are not necessary.

**BEGINNERS-GLOVES AND SAFETY GOGGLES ARE NOT OPTIONAL!**

 

[KristaY]

I used gloves and mask and all that the first two times I made soap. Since then I don't even bother with any of it. I just stand away from the lye water. If I splash some on my hand, I rinse it off. But, in answer to your post, the precautions need to be taught the first time around to newbies. Let them be lax like me, but at least they need to know what's what and make their own decisions. :sick:

And that's part of my point, misfities. You know the cautions and precautions, you know what to do in case of a splash. These people weren't told any of that. What will they do if they get a lye splash? Will they grab the nearest bottle of bleach and dump it on? Who knows? No lye safety was discussed so they don't even know there are safety measures that should be taken. If you choose to use no type of safety gear, that's your prerogative but beginners should always be given the correct information with correct actions to take. Only then will they be able to make their own decisions. Remember too, my friend is going to deliver her baby in a matter of days. Of ANYONE in that class that should have been given safety instructions, it's her.

 

[not_ally]

That is a crazy story, that woman needs to be stopped. Period.

 

[Cactuslily]

This is plain irresponsible! I'm a retired oncology RN. However, I don't know if this "teacher" should be assumed to be a medical practitioner. Unfortunately, many women choose midwives that aren't even board certified nurses. Perhaps she is one one those "midwives",which makes me even more concerned for the baby she is about to deliver. Thank goodness she has you to guide her in proper soapmaking, but I'm more concerned with her midwife.let me be clear, properly educated midwives, in which I mean to refer to as nurse practitioners, are wonderful, and safely guide countless babies into the world. I'm not going to go further about this on my soapbox, I'm just grateful she came to you, and has someone who can help her. I hope she did her due diligence in checking her midwives credentials as well.

 

[KristaY]

I pray all is well with her delivery too, cactuslily. Her husband is in the medical field so between them, I hope they're comfortable with her OB skills. This is her 3rd child and the first 2 went very well so I just pray this baby's entrance into the world is as smooth as her sisters were. :angel:

 

[maya]

I think that it is irresponsible for a person to teach classes without full safety information and safety gear use.

Can we skip trashing midwives and the women who use them please?

 

[Saponista]

Is this not illegal in some way, can she not be reported to some authority?

On the note about safety, I am not a newbie and I still wear full safety equipment especially gloves and goggles. I got lye on one of my fingertips at work once (hole in a glove) I didn't notice at the time, only when it had caused damage. It was a painful annoyance for the next six months.

 

[Sonya-m]

I used gloves and mask and all that the first two times I made soap. Since then I don't even bother with any of it. I just stand away from the lye water. If I splash some on my hand, I rinse it off. But, in answer to your post, the precautions need to be taught the first time around to newbies. Let them be lax like me, but at least they need to know what's what and make their own decisions. :sick:

You're right it is your decision but what would you do if you splashed lye in your eye - I'm pretty sure I've seen a pic on here of someone who got a tiny bit in there and the soreness it caused was pretty bad. Or knocked over your lye water - without gloves on how would you go about cleaning it up?

I've only made a dozen or so batches but I know I will never risk my eyesight for the sake of goggles

 

[Susie]

I think that it is irresponsible for a person to teach classes without full safety information and safety gear use.

Can we skip trashing midwives and the women who use them please?

I am in no way bashing midwives, or the women that use them. I am bashing THIS midwife. ESPECIALLY as she is a nurse, and should know better than to tell people all of that. I am allowed to bash that nurse, I am one. I know how she was trained. This is bordering on criminal behavior.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree that someone need to report her to somewhere for her irresponsible teaching of soapmaking. I have been asked numerous times to teach a class or two and I just keep putting them off. Especially since I don't want to teach in my home. I get messages through my website quite often. However, if I ever do decide to teach a class or two I will surely teach proper safety and how to use a soap cal.

Wow is all I can say.

 

[maya]

I am in no way bashing midwives, or the women that use them. I am bashing THIS midwife. ESPECIALLY as she is a nurse, and should know better than to tell people all of that. I am allowed to bash that nurse, I am one. I know how she was trained. This is bordering on criminal behavior.

Great! I am glad you are not trashing midwives.

Now, I think this person is behaving in a dangerous manner and should not be teaching, even if she changes her lesson to include safety because it also doesn't sound like she is teaching how to make good soap, either.

And I think we as soap makers should be holding each other to a high degree of skill, knowledge, etc. but where I live she isn't breaking the law. I don't know where you live, do you have city, county or state laws against "classes" like hers? If she is "teaching" at a community center (for instance) is the person who organizes the classes aware of lye safety?