Goat's soap

[Nehlena]

First of all, nice and happy being around you... Your feedback is valuable to me..

I am into trying a goats milk recipe and would like your feedback...

Olive oil 51%
almond sweet oil 11%
Coconut oil 27%
shea butter 11%

water 160gr and I am planning to use instead water all 160 gr goats milk...

from soap calc results...

hardness 36
cleaning 18
condition 59
lather 18
creamy 20
iodine 60 and INS 149

is it high on CO? and if it is so, if I decrease it and increase OO, the soap calc results gives a very low hardness value... is thus fake result since I know that OO actually gives a hard soap?
Also, somewhere I read that a good range for cleaning property is 7-10% for body and 5% for face soaps, do you agree?

Thank you...

 

[Hazel]

Hello Nehlena,

Welcome to the forum! :grin:

It's difficult to say whether the coconut is too high or not. Some people might consider 27% too high while others may think it's too low. It's personal preference. I don't think 27% is too high since you're going to be using goat milk. If you were using water, I would suggest a lower percentage if you have dry skin. But I'd suggest trying 27% if you didn't have dry skin so you could find out if this was a good percentage for you.

There is a current discussion about coconut which may be helpful. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=52137

Also, somewhere I read that a good range for cleaning property is 7-10% for body and 5% for face soaps, do you agree?

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you mean what range for a cleansing value, then again; it's personal preference. It's also personal preference if you mean what percentage for a lye discount/superfat. For example, I have dry skin so I prefer a cleansing value of 17 and a lye discount/superfat of 5%-8% depending upon the recipe. I will use this as both a body and facial bar. But if I was specifically making a facial bar, I would formulate for lower cleansing - at least 15 or lower depending on who wanted the soap.

I'm probably not helping you very much. It's just that formulating recipes depends on what you like which is why I recommend experimenting with different percentages.

As for olive oil, it does cure hard. However, I believe the hardness value in SoapCalc means how soluble the soap will be in water. The lower the number, the more quickly it will dissolve in water. I think that's it - I know DeeAnna talked about it because I had it wrong before and she diplomatically corrected me. I'll have to look for that post to see what she said so take this last comment with a grain of salt.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what Hazel said. So much depends on personal preference. For me, 27% coconut is right on the edge of where I like it. I like it to be more around 28% or higher, but that's just me. I know there are many others who find that amount to be much too high, but it all depends on the person, not to mention the way things are formulated, and also how high or low the superfat is. Looking at your recipe on Soapcalc, I just wanted to say that I would be very happy with a soap made from your recipe. It looks like a lovely recipe to me.

My advice is the same as Hazel's- give it a try to see if you like it, then tweak it from there.

IrishLass


Edited to add- welcome to the forum!

 

[Little-Bits-N-Pieces]

My favorite soap is very high in CO actually. My fave is 45.45% CO, 27.27% PO, and 27.27% SB with a 12% superfat (using water as the liquid, I'd tweak it for GM). I found it to be very moisturizing, left my skin silky smooth and had a great lather in my hard well water.
I totally agree with trial and error, I made several batches that looked like they'd be fabulous, and I wasn't too thrilled, and the ones that looked like they'd be pretty low quality were my favorites. Test, test, and test again until you find something you like

 

[Nehlena]

Thank you all for your time... I am brand new to soap making and you really gave a big smile on my face with your feedback...

:grin:

 

[Nehlena]

Other questions have ignited on my mind and I hope I state clear my questions...

when someone uses lets say, only goats milk instead for water in a recipe:
1) is such a soap prone to a limited shelf life?
2) can we say that a 100% goats milk increases the amount of superfat in a recipe by a certain %?
I mean, since goats milk contains lipids, do these lipids contribute to raise the superfat at a soap recipe? And if so, can someone say eg. yes, a 100% goats milk might increase the SF at about 1-2 % (difficult to state such a question, sorry if it is a stupid question :roll: ).

and because one question brings tons of others , I have seen many that create handmade soaps and sell them. How then do they satisfy the costumers with all these different variables?

 

[Nehlena]

It's also personal preference if you mean what percentage for a lye discount/superfat. For example, I have dry skin so I prefer a cleansing value of 17 and a lye discount/superfat of 5%-8% depending upon the recipe.

Hazel thank you very much for your answer... what do you mean by relating discount/superfat...

is there a link between discounting and super fatting?

What I mean is, if eg. I SF a recipe by 7%, and use a 2:1 [water:lye] ratio can the one (discount) affect the other (SF)?

Isn't lye discount used only to achieve faster the mature state of a soap or discount does affect SF of a recipe? or I have confused things in my mind... I am new and eager and read and study and confusions do happen :roll::grin:

So many questions... so little time.. :grin::grin:

 

[IrishLass]

when someone uses lets say, only goats milk instead for water in a recipe:
1) is such a soap prone to a limited shelf life?

Speaking only for myself, I've not found that to be the case at all. My batches made with goat's milk as the sole liquid last just as long as my batches made with water....... which is basically several years (and still counting) long.

2) can we say that a 100% goats milk increases the amount of superfat in a recipe by a certain %?
I mean, since goats milk contains lipids, do these lipids contribute to raise the superfat at a soap recipe? And if so, can someone say eg. yes, a 100% goats milk might increase the SF at about 1-2 % (difficult to state such a question, sorry if it is a stupid question :roll: ).

First- that's not a stupid question at all; and second, yes, it will raise your superfat %. Here is a good site that will help you to figure out how to compensate for the extra fat the milk will add:

http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/beyondbasics/ss/How-To-Make-Milk-Soap-With-Heavy-Whipping-Cream_15.htm

and because one question brings tons of others, I have seen many that create handmade soaps and sell them. How then do they satisfy the costumers with all these different variables?

Someone else will have to answer that one since I don't sell. It's all I can do to try to satisfy myself and all my family and friends!

IrishLass

 

[Dorymae]

Other questions have ignited on my mind and I hope I state clear . . .
I have seen many that create handmade soaps and sell them. How then do they satisfy the costumers with all these different variables?

I make a lot of different soaps. I believe right now I have 6 or 7 basic recipes that I use. Each one is formulated a bit differently. Some have higher SF, some use more olive oil, some more coconut. Some are better for oily skin, some better for dry skin. From those basic recipes I can add other things to make them different still. Different clays or silk, different colors and fragrance.

Still you can never please everyone, but you can try:wink:

 

[Nehlena]

Thank you, thank you and again thank you for your feedback...

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

.............. I am brand new to soap making .................

.................I have seen many that create handmade soaps and sell them. How then do they satisfy the costumers with all these different variables?

Time and experience. Make a lot of soap for a long time until you know what makes a good soap and what makes a dud. Selling a product that you have made without knowing the why's etc, is not fair to the customers at all.

Please read the stickies in this section - http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23 for some pointers on whether or not selling is something that should be distracting you from learning how to make soap.

 

[Nehlena]

Thank you The Efficacious Gentleman...
I have not in mind selling soap or at least for now...
But, I see so many that sell and wondered how they could satisfy all the costumers...

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think the wonderful thing about soaping is that there really is no one product that everyone will like more than the next, including the marketing in that. There is also no one soap that is better than all the other soaps for every person (there are of course soaps that are terrible, though).

It gives room for people to make products that appeal to their own target customers and ignore the rest.

 

[shunt2011]

I too feel like you aren't going to be able to please everyone. But, any handmade soap is better than store soap. I have 4 different recipes and don't plan on any more.

 

[coffeetime]

I make many different recipes and I like that I can help people to pick out a soap that fits them. I have some vegan, some with animal products, some with shea butter, some without, some without palm oil, some with goats milk, some with coffee grounds. The list goes on. I really like to make a variety of soaps so that I don't get bored with repetition too.

 

[Hazel]

what do you mean by relating discount/superfat...

is there a link between discounting and super fatting?

What I mean is, if eg. I SF a recipe by 7%, and use a 2:1 [water:lye] ratio can the one (discount) affect the other (SF)?

Isn't lye discount used only to achieve faster the mature state of a soap or discount does affect SF of a recipe? or I have confused things in my mind... I am new and eager and read and study and confusions do happen

I’m sorry. I knew I would end up confusing you somehow. I should have just written superfat because I think more people use this term. Lye discount and superfat can be used interchangeably when discussing using more oil than is needed for 100% saponification.

A lye discount only affects the superfat. It will not produce a faster cure time.

I am using calculations for 100% olive oil to show examples. This actually isn’t a good example because you would want to use a water discount for Castile so it won’t take so long to trace.

Lye discount just means using less lye than needed for 100% saponification. You would use only 95% of lye needed for full saponification if you wanted a 5% superfat. A 900 g batch would require 121.9 g for 100% saponification. You would use 115.8 g lye for 900 g batch to have 5% superfat.

Superfat is adding more oils. A 900 g batch would require 121.9 g for 100% saponification. You would add an extra 47 g of oil to get 5% superfat so the batch weight would end up being 947 g.

The water:lye ratio doesn’t have anything to do with superfatting. This ratio is the amount of water to the amount of lye. It tells you the lye concentration you are working with for a batch. Generally, new soapers start with what is considered a full water amount which is approximately 3:1 ratio – 3 parts water and 1 part lye. This would give you approximately 25% lye concentration. I say approximately because I’m rounding the numbers off. (BTW, I use SoapCalc for a lye calculator.)

As you become more experienced with soapmaking, you will want to use a water discount for well behaved recipes and fragrance oils. A water discount will increase the lye concentration so there is less water to evaporate from the soap. However, less water also means the batch will move a little faster which is why you want to know how fragrance oils and additives will affect your recipe. Generally, I use 33% lye concentration (2:1 water:lye ratio) for recipes I know I won’t have problems with and I’m using fragrance oils which won’t accelerate. This means the batch won’t zip through trace and seize up. I would use 25% lye concentration (full water amount) for a new fragrance oil or for one which I know will accelerate.

I would use 40% lye concentration (1.5:1 water:lye ratio) for 100% olive oil so it wouldn’t take forever to reach trace.

Although, less water to evaporate makes it sound like it will shorten curing time; it really doesn’t since there is more going on during curing than just the evaporation. The soap is still going through changes over several weeks. I will say a week possibly might be taken off the cure time depending on the recipe. However, this is just my opinion and other people may disagree with a 3 week cure time. But I have a very basic recipe that is all right at 3 weeks and I would be willing to give it away. However, I know it will continue to become a little more mild and the lather more bubbly after 4-5 weeks curing. I have other recipes which don’t become the best they will be for 6 to 8 weeks. I think Castile soap isn’t good to go until after an 18 month cure but that’s just me. I know other people have different cure times – anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months. It’s personal preference.

I’m like coffeetime as I also have many recipes. I have a couple that I consider cured at 4 weeks. Most of my recipes I think are the best after 6 weeks. I have one which really needs 5 months before it’s at its best and another which needs at least 9 months since it has a high percentage of olive oil.

I know I sound boringly repetitive but you need to experiment to find out what you like and how long it takes for different recipes to cure.

eta: You might find these articles helpful.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/LyeDiscount-Dunn.pdf
http://cavemanchemistry.com/WaterDiscount-Dunn.pdf
http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

18 months???? As in, like, one and a half year???
woah, now that's commitment!

 

[Susie]

True Castile(100% Olive Oil) needs a minimum of 6 months to cure. It will be slimy and not nice at all before then. It will also melt away in the bath/shower really, really fast. Most people here cure Castile at least 12 months, but, again, this is subjective. I can easily see where 18 months would be better than 12.

 

[IrishLass]

My true Castiles are still pretty darn slimy even after 5 years! lol That's just the nature of the oleic beast, though. I don't normally set out to cure my true Castiles for 5 years, but I just happened to have recently found and used up a few forgotten bars that I had tucked away 5 years ago. As soon as the water hit them, it was slime city! lol

Not to say that that's a bad thing, mind you. All of that stringy slime turns to gloriously creamy/bubbly lather when I lather it with a nylon pouf.


IrishLass

 

[coffeetime]

I am using a 1-year old true Castille and it doesn't have any sliminess left. The lather is even pretty decent. Not on par with my regular soaps but nothing to complain about.